I am traveling right now, but will be happy to take the time to itemize those distortions when I return to my office and take out the medal I have and the official PARL response to all this rumor-mongering about Dr. Beach and the medallion given to the pope.

As to who else was given one, I can only guess why you think that would be somehow significant in the grand conspiracy theory that you are helping to perpetuate by cutting and pasting from those anti-SDA Church websites. But given the nature of the medallion, I seriously doubt any record is kept of who is given one. The fact that a PARL office assistant was free to give me one without clearing it with anyone should tell you how significant an "honor" it is supposed to be. It is a nice give-away item.

Tom

I remember a Conference President telling me about a discussion that was had in the GC about whether to lower the flag after the death of John Paul. One wing of the church would interpret the lowering of the flag as a sign of allegiance/sympathy to the papacy. If the flag was not lowered the community would see it as a sign of disrespect for Catholics and a lack of compassion for those Catholics who are grieving. He told me that they decided to take it down altogether. I don't know how accurate the story is. I really don't have a lot of patience for this "nit picking". There are other more pressing challenges that face our church.

It does not diminish the witness of the SDA church by lowering a flag or giving a medal. I have met Mr Beech and heard his explanation while I was in seminary. He stuck me as a man of God who is passionate about reaching out to other denominations, making friends and thereby increasing the influence of the SDA church. Its really that simple.

Just scanning through the various items on the website calltorepent.com I'm amazed at those things the authors would draw attention to as examples of corporate sins of the church. I'm expecting to see a page exposing the Jesuits in the GC. Its pathetic and misguided stuff in my humble opinion.

In another place, John said-


Many of our OWN articles that show the tablets of the Ten Commandments with the 4th highlighted with the following words-"Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy". AND that is what is on the coin...It is NOT some catholic symbolic wording/picture relating to the Catholic powers designed to subdue the innocent individual into believing that Catholisism is the correct way to God. Jeese Louise, talk about convoluted twisted hypocondriac logic....It was a coin of friendship given to a representative of a religious country. Don't make it into something that smacks of conspiracy...

The Good News is that the way is about Jesus, His life and His redemption and His sacrifice. It's about Him....and that message needs to permmiate [sp] all of our thinking processes....If it don't, how can one even be considered safe to go to heaven?

Cound not agree more!

Do you see anything objectionable in a church representative meeting the pope and calling him "Holy Father"?

Is this an accurate report?--

"The present Secretary of the Conference and at the same time the First Secretary of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Mr. Beach, made a statement at the Vatican Radio emphasizing the impor-tance of this first meeting of Adventists with the Pope. Word for word, this is what he said: 'It was a great honor for me, as the Secretary of the Conference, to be present here in Rome, in audience with the Holy Father. On this occasion I presented to the Pope a book about the world-wide work of the Adventist Church.' Glas Koncila (Catholic paper in Yugoslavia), June 5, 1977."

JPII reached out to Protestant groups as an effort to bring them into the fold--recognizing the supremacy of the pope. Ratzinger has the same goal. They are acting in accord with the Marian visions which occurred in Fatima, Portugal. If that step fails, then the next step will be force--compel the return to the Catholic fold. The authority of the U.S. government will be invoked to accomplish that.

Dave

I never referred to or suggested that there is some kind of conspiracy on the part of Adventists. I just believe that some leaders and members of our church do not realize the significance of their approach to the pope, and perhaps do not realize the intentions of the Vatican in doing what it does. And this despite the fact that the Vatican tells the whole world that it wants people and churches to return to the "mother church." It makes it difficult if not impossible for the SDA church to give the Three Angels Messages fully as God raised our church up to do, when we give the appearance that Babylon is not fallen or terribly wrong.

In your thinking, should our leaders and representatives be calling the pope "Holy Father"? Is that how you refer to the pope? If he did come to the GC, for a meeting, should we be welcoming him as "the Holy Father"?

What about the medal do you see as particularly symbolic Adventists?

Incidentally, I am no 'conspiracy theorist.' I would not need to be, even if such was an interest. There is too much solid evidence out there to need to resort to such theories. The papacy's goal of world domination is well-known. The ultimate result of those efforts is well known to students of Scripture, as well as to students of history. It happened before, and the Inquisition was the result. It will happen again.

By the way, you certainly don't see the pope or his representatives giving a medal to Protestant church leaders. The pope considers them to be heretics. Once again, he is currently making an effort to bring them back to the Catholic fold by entreaty, voluntarily. If that fails, then the Church will once again resort to force.

In that day, the answer to Stalin's question will be clear:

"How many divisions does the pope have?"

The pope will have at his disposal many divisions--the U.S. Armed Forces, NATO, and others.

This is not the time to strike a medal in honor of this persecuting power, or to receive him. I believe Jesus gave instructions to his disciples about such a thing in Matthew 10 or so.

Dave

At the same time, looking at the medal, I see the Ten Commandments on one side, with the Sabbath as the FOURTH commandment (not the Catholic/Lutheran version), and the first sentence of the Fourth Commandment as it appears in the King James Bible (no room for more on the medal.) The Bible is depicted--thus showing the supremacy of the Bible over church tradition. The words, 'Christ Our Righteousness' certainly do NOT go along with Catholic teaching on penance and indulgences. On the other side is a depiction of Christ's second coming, Rev. 1:7 quoted. Doesn't look to me like Christ is standing on a mountain. He is standing on clouds. The bottom of the medal has a space for Rev. 1:7. As for stars . . . this is the second coming, not the seven churches vision. Jesus' pose is indeed medieval, but I see nothing wrong with that. As for the absence of a crown, I just don't see some dark significance to that. The Catholic church certainly acknowledges that Christ will wear a crown. Looks to me like the medal is a witnessing tool. It certainly does NOT appear to be in harmony with the Catholic church's teaching! Sabbath, Bible, Second Advent. I am not saying that I would have honored the papacy with a medal, but at the same time I don't see this medallion as honoring the papacy. Quite the opposite. Looks like Bert Beach may have had a similar agenda to JPII in a sense--bring him back to the fold--to the Adventist church.

Dave

Thank you for saying this Taylor. Well said. Personally .... I just get tired of our 'church bashing' by so many extremists in our church. Like you say .... it is best to 'think' the best and not be overly judgmental.