You are unaware of the work.

We are aware of many more possibilities than we were back then and we have a much better understanding of the extremes that prokaryotes can live in. We have good ideas about how simple self-replicating molecules can be, about how the initial molecules can come together, and about how mutation and selection can occur.

You might try a book such as "Cradle of Life: The Discovery of Earth's Earliest Fossils" - I haven't read it but the opening page is exactly on topic...

http://www.amazon.com/Cradle-Life-Discov...3537152-7772708



/Bevin

No. The DNA mechanism is pretty good at almost exact reproduction. If there is no significant pressure on the species, if the current form fits the environment pretty well, then the deviations will tend to get squashed and the main line will tend to stay unchanged.

/Bevin

Do not confuse disagreement over the details with dissent over the big picture.

/Bevin

But you have it exactly backward - elements (except hydrogen) are formed *in* stars, which is why I talked about star life cycles. Bevin has addressed this in the new thread he started. The short answer is that the space-time-matter-energy conditions after the Big Bang and the laws of physics (including gravity, electromagnetic and strong and weak nuclear forces) are the usual explanation for the formation of elements. We're back to mechanisms... did God speak into existence a universe much like we see now, or did he SPEAK his power and energy into the Big Bang and create a universe out of nothing that way?

You've repeatedly railed against uniformitarianism in the context of evolution of life on earth, but you seem to be arguing here for a uniform universe. And please realise that describing how the elements were created through the processes during and after the Big Bang is *not* denying God's power to speak the elements into existence... the difference is in the mechanisms he chose.

Shane, you've taken strong exception when others have spoken about creationists 'lying'... don't you think it's fair to extend the same courtesies to those in opposition as you request (demand) for those with whom you agree?

There are evolutionists that teach evolution as a fact and actually ridicule those that disagree with them. "Purposely mislead" is a better term than "lie", I will agree with that. I know these types of evolutionists exist because I have had some as instructors.

Why is there so much resistance to the concept of Intelligent Design within the evolutionistic community? Dr. Tim Standish was on 3ABN this past weekend talking about Intelligent Design and how it should fit into science education in the public school system.

As Adventists we don't expect, and don't want, creationism being taught in the public school system. However Intelligent Design is an honest science as much as acheology is. Yet many evolutionists purposely misled their students from ever considering it.

But there is. Many scientists have now disavowed long-age and organic evolution. No, they haven't come over in droves to ID, but they are looking for and embracing alternative theories. One example is Stuart Kaufmann.

Dave

'Purposely mislead' is still not fair or accurate, because it assumes that these instructors know evolution to be false but still teach it. I would argue that they fully, honestly believe evolution to be true, and teach it. That is, they are, if anything, misled themselves, but are neither lying not intentionally misleading others. Again, the exact same arguments could be made about creationists, in the exact same way, so if it's inappropriate to say they are lying, it's equally inappropriate to say evolutionists are lying... no matter what terminology you use to do it.

They know there are nonreligious scientists that have embraced intelligent design and yet refuse to acknowledge it. They are teaching students what to think and not how to think.



Absolutely! Many creationists do the exact same thing. They are just as guilty of teaching students what to think and not how to think. And they do their cause harm in doing such.

But the important fact remains that no one has created life from non-life, despite all the attempts to do so. That seems strange to me since the claim is made that they know how it happened and that it happened by accident or chance.

It really bothers me that this truth seems to be resisted, as if they are afraid of admitting it. If people are afraid of admitting the truth about something this obvious and important, what else are they hiding or not admitting?

I am wondering if you know how many molecules are contained in the average-sized cell?

I would like to ask a number of questions. Of course you don't have to answer them unless you want to, but I would be interested in hearing your answers to them:

1) What do you believe about the future of the world and the universe? How does evolution affect your views regarding your relationship with God and with Christ?

2) Do you believe in the second coming of Christ? What do you expect life will be like on this earth in the distant future, say, 2,000 years from now, and where do you personally expect to be at that time?

3) Do you believe in a personal resurrection of the dead and in the judgment as the Bible describes it? Will all of humanity be involved?

4) Does your view of evolution and of how life arose cause you to see life as always being made up of intense competition, with strife, hatred, wars, and death?

5) Does your belief in evolution cause you to have greater faith in the Bible or less faith in it? For instance, when the Bible talks about a flood that destroyed all humanity and all land animals, except for those in the ark, does your belief in evolution cause you to question that or to believe it?

6) How do your evolutionary beliefs relate to keeping the Sabbath holy? Do you believe you keep it holy and if so, why do you keep it?

7) Do you believe in a personal God who loves you and sent Jesus to die for your sins so you can have eternal life and live in heaven and on the new earth with Him?

8) Do you believe in a God who knows the future and who inspired the prophets to write about that future?

9) Do you consider yourself a theistic evolutionist? In other words, I would be interested to know if you believe, as Darwin did, that God created the first life on earth?