Why do you think Jesus was under the curse of the law? Because even though he did no sin, Jesus voluntarily took our sin on himself in order to suffer God's curse or wrath against sin. Jesus had our sins credited to Him and He was treated for our sakes as if He had committed our sins, the same way we have Jesus' righteousness credited to our accounts and are treated as if we had never sinned and even as if we had done all of Jesus' righteous acts. That is the exchange that is made when in repentence and faith we put our complete trust in Jesus as our personal Savior and as the Owner and Master of our lives.

The verse you quoted simply makes the point that before people enter heaven, we must receive a glorified (incorruptable), sinless, body like Jesus' glorified body. We have a mortal body at the present time, just as Jesus' body was mortal prior to His resurrection; but we will be given a new, glorified body before we are translated.

Interestingly there is no record of either sinful Enoch or Elijah receiving a sinless body before they were taken to heaven. That is the main reason that "Jehovah's Witnesses" deny that either of those saints ever did go heaven.

When we see His face we are changed.

Right! Only then are we "perfect" in thought, deed and nature. Until then we "fall short".

Robert

So you are denying that your sinful nature, in and of itself, makes you a sinner? David rejects this, if that's what you are saying. So does Paul. And even more, Jesus rejects this....



Credited? In other words it was make believe? Jesus really didn't take upon Himself our fallen, sinful humanity? Look, the law demands your death! Christ's death instead of your does not answer the demands of God's law. The law says, "The soul that sins it must die." If your old life did not actually die then you are still under the curse and there will be no heaven for you.



I am actually perfectly righteous "in Christ"! Otherwise I wouldn't stand a chance.


Robert

Jesus didn't have a human nature. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Jesus remained Himself. Yes, He handed over to His Father the independent use of His divinity and walked in our fallen, humanity from birth to death. He only knew He was God in human flesh via His Father.

Jones, Waggoner and EGW taught that Jesus didn't HAVE a sinful nature. It was not His. He assumed it in order to redeem it.

Now a question concerning this denial that our sinful nature makes us sinners apart from our own personal sins.


If an infant dies before he is born (say at 8 months) does that infant need a savior? Why?

Do you actually think that you are obeying as Christ obeyed while in human flesh?

Let me give you EGW:

"Our earthly life, however long, honored, or useful it may be, is but childhood, frail, imperfect, and undeveloped. Manhood, with its full, perfect, glorious development, will come, when, freed from the taint of sin [indwelling sin], we stand among the redeemed throng. Then we shall enjoy a life which measures with the life of God, and through everlasting ages we shall go on increasing in wisdom and knowledge."

There are many others....I am not denying growth, but perfection - never this side of eternity. Even the 144,000 (God's remnant) will still be saved by faith alone. Yes, they will mature to the point that they are not sinning, but their nature still makes them a sinner plus before that maturity they had a pile of sins.

Hey ... Do I qualify for the 144,000 perfection !!

I haven't sinned for the past two seconds.

I really don't see how it matters that a group of people will go for some unknown period of time without sinning. Big Deal.

It happens all the time NOW. It will still do them NO GOOD.

Sinful by nature apart from the outward transgression of the law:

Ps 51:5 Surely I [David] was sinful at birth, [then he reaches back further] sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Nope...you and they (future) are still sinful by nature. Besides, if you really study Christ's life you come to the realization that Christ's every thought was not for Himself, but rather the humanity that hated Him. He lived...no...His ambition was outward (never inward). He lived not for Himself. Can you say that of yourself? Can you say that your overwhelming ambition in life is not for yourself, but for others. That's how Christ lived His spotless life. That's also why He was homeless. He was too busy loving the world. There was no self-love in His life. This is where all of us fail. We might keep the letter of the law, but the spirit demands that we love your neighbor as we naturally love self. Instead of thinking of yourself...your needs, your education, what you need and what you desire, try living like Christ in every detail. That's perfection.



Actually, by stating that you just sinned! :)

"If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us"

Of course you are joking....You very funny man...Ha, ha, ha...



That group will perfectly understand the love of God. They understand the gospel perfectly. All is lost for the cause of Christ. They are literally without. They are totally dependent on God and, as the Bible says, "they loved not their lives unto death." Like their Master, they are willing to give up heaven instead of harm a hair of their enemies. They have fully matured. This work proves that the gospel they present is genuine. Hence it will draw other in Babylon to Christ and salvation by faith alone. It is used as a witness and is therefor demonstrative instead of meritorious.

Robert

The gospel I present is genuine because of who I know NOT what I do.