I would advise you to not read anymore of this thread David. But, let those that want healing to be free to exercise their right and need ... without your critical judgments.

:-) Thanks. It's no problem; it is what it is ... just a part of life's experiences. As for my ideals, I still have them. Life has taught me that every race, nationality, community and family is comprised of those with class, intellect and a spiritual consciousness. As we have determined, these things can not be forced or legislated. I only post on the subject in an attempt to balance the scales.



You certainly have a good understanding of the issues at hand. It does seem that your previous experiences prepared you to deal with the issues involved in your line of work.

Yes, screaming at a person, public and subtle put downs, etc. are a very effective method of intimidation. When I referred to becoming defensive I wasn't necessarily referring to physical/verbal defensive. I am not the only individual who tends to internalize my defensiveness. I have become more verbal in recent years. Many will not change. Realistically it is often the safest way to deal with your emotions; professionally, socially, even within the hollowed walls of our churches.

And, I too am sorry that you have experienced these things. Sorry that anyone has had to experience such. And, to deal with it diurnally can create a specialized class of stress



I understand the thought process behind what you are saying, but I am not sure the majority want to know. It is much safer to stay within an idealistic comfort zone. I have attempted several times on previous threads to post .. on tip toes ... the rest of the story . Obviously I was guilty of having misspoken because the response(s) was similar to the one on this threat, which was something to the effect of "put it where the sun doesn't shine"

What I have learned in life is that class comes in all colors: Red, yellow, black or white. It can’t be bought, taught or legislated unless the individual desires possession.

And, loving your neighbor as your self is beneficial to the person who puts it into practice, but often is ill received by your brother. But, that’s OK; the only actions which we are responsible for are those which we own.

I guess discussing the black community is much more interesting than discussing the white community.

It doesn't hurt to discuss both does it Shane?

I think we need to hear both perspectives.

Aids, cancer, n korea is crazy & has the bomb, the iraq war is a mess, afghanistan is not too far behind, global warming, jihad, terrorists, tsunamis, natural disasters. Compared to all that, racism in america, real or perceived, is not that crucial.

DB

In many ways I agree with you. That obviously would not be the case if racial issues in this counry were as bad as they were in the 40s, 50s, and early 60s. So we can be glad for the progress.

Yes, it's good to have someplace for people to go where they can say honestly whatever they really feel or think on this subject. People are sometimes going to say things that others dont like and that's perfectly OK here. When it comes to talking honestly about race, you have to expect that people are going to show anger sometimes because people usually have felt they can't reveal their true thoughts about it. Consequently there can be lot of suppressed frustration and even anger.

I remember reading books written in the early 60s about "black rage," concerning all the anger that blacks then seemed to have. It is still a subject for discussion on some TV and radio talk shows. But today there are also some whites who feel some anger that they might need to talk out. For me it seems to go together with the subject of the problems of white community because they are sort of interconnected. Frankly I think the white and black communities have a kind of love/hate relationship anyway, and maybe they have ever since the days of slavery.

It might help to know or remember that the last years of his life, Cleaver had serious health problems, including diabetes, which can affect one's thinking and judgment. Near the end, he was arrested for stealing some old furniture from a house, which I am sure he never would have done if he had had his health. It was kinda sad.

Also, he saw a lot of things in Cuba and elsewhere that really disillusioned him about Marxism. He witnessed racism in Cuba and even in China. In Cuba, of course, black Cubans are not treated as well as the Hispanic Cubans. Also in China, there have been times when African students have been badly treated. Anyway, his turning Republican was a response or reaction to things he experienced when he was a Leftist.

I am convinced that in his own way, by co-founding the Black Panther Party, Cleaver was sincere in his desire to help blacks, but he just chose the wrong path, in my judgment. It would have been better had he gone the peaceful route of Martin Luther King. I think King and blacks' close relationship at that time to the church was the reason the Civil Rights Movement never turned bloody, which it could have been if it had followed the path of the Black Muslims.

Did you ever hear Malcolm X's talk on "the ballot or the bullit"? He gave that speech not too long before he went to Africa and changed his mind about violence and hate. I wish he'd have lived. About the time he was murdered was when he was just beginning to come into his prime and have something good to offer. In my opinion Malcolm X was 100 times the man Louis Farakahn ever was.

Problems in the white community?
Interesting what you wrote here saying "It might help to know or remember that the last years of his life, Cleaver had serious health problems, including diabetes, which can affect one's thinking and judgment."

That fact about diabetes is new to me. I never heard that before.
A certain type of diabetes has this Forum's boss.
Can we draw similar conclusions on his thinking and judgments?

Serious Health problems can include many problems that DO effect ones thinking and judgments. Like all health problems ... each one effects humans differently from one individual to another.