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Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.
And don’t jump all over them every time they do or say something you don’t agree with
– even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department.
Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently. Romans 14.1: The Message
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#124724 - 05/08/07 07:24 PM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: Taylor]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6960
Loc: A citizen of Heaven

 Quote:
I think this shows that EGW was balanced. Eggs, in general, aren't the best food, but you might need them and if so should eat them. EGW wasn't nearly as radical as some have tried to make her out to be. She was a lovely Christan woman who did many radical things in her day (such as support her son's work with the blacks to establish schools and missions along the Mississippi river, at a time when to do so was very unpopular.). She was considered "liberal" by many by advocating health above style or even what some viewed as modestly (by saying dresses shouldn't drag the ground picking up all the dirt and muck of the streets.) She wrote against eating meat but when a man wrote to her to say that he was upholding the health message by not allowing his pregnant wife to eat Chicken, she told him that was wrong of him to deny his wife the chicken.


Ellen White may have been balanced. I don't know. But the way WE use her is NOT.
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#124727 - 05/08/07 07:34 PM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: Taylor]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
Graeme, I am at the same time indignant and heartbroken, as I read about your very sad experience. I believe that in the judgment day, such people will be among those to whom Jesus says, 'Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity! I never knew you!" I hope they repent of the evil they have done, and make an effort to repair the harm they have inflicted.

In my case, I was not subjected to such things. Perhaps that is one reason I don't feel resentment against EGW.

Dave
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"Study to show yourself approved by God, a good workman who needs not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

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#124728 - 05/08/07 07:36 PM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: David Koot]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6960
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
 Quote:
In my case, I was not subjected to such things. Perhaps that is one reason I don't feel resentment against EGW.


Thank you David for saying this. WOW . This is so important. We just can't know the path that others have walked. So ... for some it is just not possible to appreciate even the wonderful things of Ellen White because of their past experience. I do not question their ability or inability to appreciate her.
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#124732 - 05/08/07 08:52 PM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: Planey]
rudywoofs Offline
stumbling to the cross

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 1894
Loc: in the mists of time
 Originally Posted By: Planey
I believe that a number of people of my age may have had their attitude to the writings of our esteemed elder female author coloured by experiences similar to my own. When I was in my formative years it was very noticeable that "the writings" were used to smack us young reprobates about the head on a regular basis. We had a joke that the largest and most popular book she wrote was called "Mrs White Says".

We also noted that many (most?) of the people who regularly belaboured us did not seem to let the books they "quoted" affect their own lives too much. No, indeed, apparently the red books were designed to ensure that these older paragons of virtue and righteousness could spot every little speck and spot of sin and wrongdoing in our lives and apprise us of these heinous deeds.

We believed that the "testimonies" could be summed up as "Are you enjoying yourself? Well stop it immediately, what you are doing must be sinful!" Many among us grew to dread hearing "Well, Mrs White says..." thus and thus. The sad thing is the good lady wrote so many letters with advice for different people, and she always seemed to couch said advice in absolute terms, that it seems possible to find an apropos quote for almost any position you want. Particularly if it means prohibiting something.

**snip**

I must admit that after having her used primarily as a club for so many years, I took exception to the very idea of opening any of her books for myself. And this lasted for a long time. Even today I get upset when people quote her to "prove" some point or other. "It is a sin to be sick..." for instance. But don't get me started.

Graeme


Graeme, that is EXACTLY how I and my cohorts at JrAcademy and Academy felt about EGW. Exactly. Always the *Elders* would bring up an EGW quote which may or may not have been apropos to the situation or behavior. It always felt like a.... dare I say it?..... an SDA witch hunt... using EGW as the prime authority..

_________________________
Pam



On earth, Jesus was an artist in a gallery of his own paintings.
~ Max Lucado ~


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#124734 - 05/08/07 09:14 PM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: rudywoofs]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6960
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Good One Pam. You are sharp today.
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#124746 - 05/08/07 10:35 PM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: Redwood]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6960
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
I would remind all of you that Ellen White sinned against her own declaration of sin by drinking coffee. She used it as medicine but her declaration that drinking it was sin has no exclusions that would allow it to be used as medicine. So .... Ellen White was a sinner. Imagine that. In fact ... she was a willful sinner.
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#124783 - 05/09/07 02:35 AM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: David Koot]
olger Offline


Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 2853
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: David Koot
Graeme, I am at the same time indignant and heartbroken, as I read about your very sad experience. I believe that in the judgment day, such people will be among those to whom Jesus says, 'Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity! I never knew you!" I hope they repent of the evil they have done, and make an effort to repair the harm they have inflicted.

In my case, I was not subjected to such things. Perhaps that is one reason I don't feel resentment against EGW.

Dave

That is well put, David.

rejoice always,

olger

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#124806 - 05/09/07 06:00 AM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: rudywoofs]
John317 Global Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 7686
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs
 Originally Posted By: Planey
I believe that a number of people of my age may have had their attitude to the writings of our esteemed elder female author coloured by experiences similar to my own. When I was in my formative years it was very noticeable that "the writings" were used to smack us young reprobates about the head on a regular basis. We had a joke that the largest and most popular book she wrote was called "Mrs White Says".

We also noted that many (most?) of the people who regularly belaboured us did not seem to let the books they "quoted" affect their own lives too much. No, indeed, apparently the red books were designed to ensure that these older paragons of virtue and righteousness could spot every little speck and spot of sin and wrongdoing in our lives and apprise us of these heinous deeds.

We believed that the "testimonies" could be summed up as "Are you enjoying yourself? Well stop it immediately, what you are doing must be sinful!" Many among us grew to dread hearing "Well, Mrs White says..." thus and thus. The sad thing is the good lady wrote so many letters with advice for different people, and she always seemed to couch said advice in absolute terms, that it seems possible to find an apropos quote for almost any position you want. Particularly if it means prohibiting something.

**snip**

I must admit that after having her used primarily as a club for so many years, I took exception to the very idea of opening any of her books for myself. And this lasted for a long time. Even today I get upset when people quote her to "prove" some point or other. "It is a sin to be sick..." for instance. But don't get me started.

Graeme


Graeme, that is EXACTLY how I and my cohorts at JrAcademy and Academy felt about EGW. Exactly. Always the *Elders* would bring up an EGW quote which may or may not have been apropos to the situation or behavior. It always felt like a.... dare I say it?..... an SDA witch hunt... using EGW as the prime authority..



This reminds me of children complaining of how their parents did or said things that make them want to do what their parents told them not to do. Well, that may be acceptable in children, but we're all adults here (I assume). It's ridiculous for grown-ups to use those childish excuses to have the attitude they have toward anyone, let alone toward Ellen White. I got over that a long time ago, just like I got over the mistakes of my parents. I don't use them as my reasons for being the way I am or for doing the things I do. It's time to grow up and make our decisions based on mature, not childish, thinking.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#124810 - 05/09/07 07:20 AM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: John317]
rudywoofs Offline
stumbling to the cross

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 1894
Loc: in the mists of time

John317 said:
 Quote:
This reminds me of children complaining of how their parents did or said things that make them want to do what their parents told them not to do. Well, that may be acceptable in children, but we're all adults here (I assume). It's ridiculous for grown-ups to use those childish excuses to have the attitude they have toward anyone, let alone toward Ellen White. I got over that a long time ago, just like I got over the mistakes of my parents. I don't use them as my reasons for being the way I am or for doing the things I do. It's time to grow up and make our decisions based on mature, not childish, thinking.


**clears throat**

Thank you, kind sir, for the charitable observations you have shared with us. We, the accused, bow to your obvious higher plane of thinking, reasoning and spiritual growth. **snorts** How dare you judge me. How dare you judge Graeme. How dare you judge anyone. Speak for yourself and let the Spirit convict.
_________________________
Pam



On earth, Jesus was an artist in a gallery of his own paintings.
~ Max Lucado ~


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#124811 - 05/09/07 07:32 AM Re: Coffee - Health Food! [Re: John317]
David Koot Offline
Craftsman

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 3513
Loc: N38d14.516m, W122d37.982m
 Originally Posted By: John317


This reminds me of children complaining of how their parents did or said things that make them want to do what their parents told them not to do. Well, that may be acceptable in children, but we're all adults here (I assume). It's ridiculous for grown-ups to use those childish excuses to have the attitude they have toward anyone, let alone toward Ellen White. I got over that a long time ago, just like I got over the mistakes of my parents. I don't use them as my reasons for being the way I am or for doing the things I do. It's time to grow up and make our decisions based on mature, not childish, thinking.


John, I can sympathize with the very painful experience of those who were attacked with 'Mrs. White.' Although I was not, I had other experiences. For example, my mother was the one who led out in family worship. I remember very clearly the unpleasantness. When she decided that it was time for worship, she would come into the room and turn the TV off, right in the middle of the programs we were enjoying. And then, we would get to sit and listen to her read from whatever book she was using. Huge resentment! DECADES later, when I was on my own, and a professional, I was quite surprised. When I would go to visit my parents in Oakland, and she decided it was time for family worship, she would announce it, get out a book and start reading. After a couple of minutes, I got up. I was through. The resentment was too strong. That was when I was in my thirties! So, yes, I can understand those who still have feelings of deep resentment about EGW, even though adults.

Here, on C/A, we may have the walking wounded, the smoking flax, just about to go out, the bruised reed, barely hanging on. We need to be gentle with them, and empathize with them, affirm them in the painful experiences they have gone through. People need affirmation and spiritual and emotional support. That can help provide a foundation for healing, which was absent in the past.

Dave


Edited by David Koot (05/09/07 07:34 AM)
_________________________
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