Have you ever wondered what "saints" will be doing in heaven for 1000 years?? Or if they will be in heaven for 1000 years?? Is it possible that they will be "caught up", visit other planets, arrive in heaven, sit at 'the Great Banquet', look over the books ( to see why Uncle Charlie 'didn't make it') and then return to the Earth made new? If God's time is not "our time", and according to Einstein's theory of relativity time changes once you are free of the gravity of earth's surface, is it entirely possible that the saints will not be gone for 1000 years of 'their lifetime' BUT 1000 years will have passed on this earth before they return??....Just a thought.Regards, Don

Hi Don. Yep, I have wondered `bout them things. I content myself by realizing that whatever I can imagine, it will be better than that.

oG

Have you ever wondered: If there will be dogs and cats in the New Earth? I respectfully have to disagree with my colleague, Steve Wohlberg who thinks that there will be. Dogs and Cats are "man made" 'devolutions' of original species such as Wolves, Lions and Tigers.. I think that original species will be in the New Earth just like "in the beginning". Of course, I am now prepared to face the wrath of the 'little old ladies in sneakers who don't 'want to be there' if their poodle, Fifi, isn't there too. Regards, Don

Have you ever wondered if heaven is "up there somewhere" or is merely in another dimension? When Jesus prayed, the angel was there immediately with food. Would have been easy if he had just moved from one dimension into another...Just a thought. Regards, Don

"And Jesus lifted His eyes to heaven and said Father the hour is come.."

Wohlberg is cool (except for the cat stuff).


oG

I think we'll all be asking questions like, why, how, where, when, who, what. Did I miss anything?

HEY DON

WELL HEAVEN is through the belt of ORION
as how for that is I DONT KNOW but as to how far
heaven is from us and how fast angels can fly
well these are good questions??? But GOD'S WAYS
are not man's ways. And I just believe that ANGELS
CAN FLY very fast if they have to.

dgrimm60

Right, a thousand years blinked by when all what the saints felt was just a few days.. It's like tricking the mind, yeah? That’s what I have heard from alien abduction experiences testimonies. Interesting indeed, but than I may falter in my faith on other things too, considering them to be forms of mind tricks as well, ha ha. I remember myself at a time, imagining Gods creation to be in the form of bubble dimensions where outside of this bubble is another form of reality till the next larger bubble. It's a good start for a superb sci-fi concept story lending its likeness to atoms and molecules of likened miniature galaxies inside bigger ones and yet still inside other bigger ones and so on.

Its a nice sport to wander in thought round uncommonly unthought-of things as long as one doesn’t lose sight and energy to finish the journey.

When Gods angel appeared to our agonized Christ at Gethsemane the angel created or affected a form of splash wave casting back the outcaste angels and their affecting drowsiness on that area. That’s why several of Christ's disciple were capable of somehow awakening to witness a glimpse of Christ with that angel but later falling back to the recovering prowess of the dark forces. ..sounds like a clip from a movie, yeah? Ha ha.

Sorry, gotto get back to work. Jakarta, 2:00 pm, at office.

God bless you,
Raphael

Well, of course, Don, we can trust that there will be no SNAKES there either! After all, the snake does have a rather tarnished record--and just think of the BAD associations! But that's okay, you will no doubt find other critters to occupy your interest.

Cheers.

Of course there will be snakes there. They were among the most beautiful of the created creatures. The "tarnished record" you speak of is no worse than the "tarnished record" of humans. The snake had no choice in being used by the devil, and that is more than you can say for mankind.

Well, if Mr. Snake DIDN'T have a choice, why was he sentenced to crawl on his belly? Sounds like some accountability there.

I think you are very narrow minded to think that God didn't intend his original creation to "evolve" (that wicked word). I'm almost sure He made a few sample animals and expected them to mutate or whatever to make many more kinds of creatures.

Surely He didn't intend for us all to be exactly like Adam and Eve. Same for the animals.

"And God said, Let us make man in our image" Genesis 1:26 KJV

"Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?" John 14:9 NASB

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Hebrews 13:8 NASB
Regards!

"Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.

And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;

But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.

Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.

Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,

For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.

Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.

Then it will happen on that day that the Lord
Will again recover the second time with His hand
The remnant of His people, who will remain,"
Isaiah 11:1-11 NASB

This is commonly seen as speaking of Jesus, and I can see no reason why the God Who is love would not take the pets, who had been nurtured in love down here on this earth, to be reunited in the kingdom with their beloved masters. And the Father Who instilled love for those pets also has a promise for those who wish to claim it.

"Delight yourself in the LORD; And He will give you the desires of your heart." Psalm 37:4 NASB

I desire my pets to be reunited with me in heaven and I delight in the Lord. The promise is for me, which only seems to be fitting from Someone Who lets not one sparrow fall to earth without His notice.

"Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father." Matthew 10:29 NASB
Blessings!

I don't think that in our dull earth bound imagination it is possible to imagine and describe in words what God has prepared for us. That's why it is amusing to look at artists paintings as they paint Jesus and God the Father in their own image... and they paint Heaven likewise based on their own earthly experiences. We all do to a certain degree.

But as we get away to the best and most blissful man made resorts on this earth, and we feel excited and once we get there everything is awesome... then how much more the heaven will be? Imagine all the things that you enjoy doing, and now imagine them all at the same time :). I've experienced a taste of heaven to a certain degree when I've accomplished something and the load of something is lifted off my shoulders. The feeling of relief! What an awesome feeling!
I have no idea whether Heaven is in different dimension... it could be since there are things invisible to our eye (such as angels). But I don't think that it would be fair to say that heaven for sure is located in Orion's belt as it is common for ancient and occult mythologies for the most part to place their gods in stars... such as Sirius and Orion ( I don't rule out the possibility though). Yet I think this mentality too puts God in a box, just like painters put Father and Jesus into a picture frame. God is omnipresent, but he can choose to reveal himself in a certain places... yet he is still omnipresent. Which would only mean that our reality is only a speck of God's reality.
In Hinduism there's a concept of Maya which they use to describe the reality. They hold that everything that transpiring is merely god's dream. To very tiny degree it is true because God thought and spoken (speech is the direct outcome of thoughts) this world into the existence. So to say that God right now is in one particular star alignment or location is to say that God is pretty small compared to the Universe that he thought into existence :). IMO God exists outside of his creation, yet he can reveal himself in and through it.

As far as the notion of the THEORY of relativity goes, which I don't believe Einstein formulated by himself (yet the idea is attributed to him), is quite problematic when considering some statements made by it to explain the origin and nature of reality. It makes some claims that could hardly be verified.

1) Universe is expanding faster than speed of light. It does not contradict the creation account, but it undercuts it by inserting the Big Bang theory.

2) If time and space are relative to a location based on gravity and the speed of the object. Then there are very few objective ways to verify this claim as we measure time and space based on our understanding of these. So to speak if we put a clock in a spaceship which travels at near speed of light... it does not mean that the time is moving slower when clock's hands are slowed down... but it could mean that the mechanism of the clock acts differently under different circumstances. Clocks simply measure movements of their hands and we call these time. If clock would be a bit slow, or a bit fast and we would be locked in basement somewhere ... then fact that the clock is fast does not prove that the time goes faster, but theory of relativity says that it does.


The theory does make true observations about nature of light, but we tend to mix truth with lies... and now in our culture every headline that includes "Scientists say, or Scientists discovered" is being viewed as credible.

As far as dogs and cats... I don't know. Technically we are all results of devolution of or original (Adam and Eve) physical and mental abilities. But it does not mean that we won't be in heaven of course. Let's just say that dogs and cats might look different, likewise we may look quite a bit different too :).

I would like to know where you get this idea.

It is a scientific fact. I don't know of any scientist who will disagree

Well, I am not a scientist so I can happily disagree.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 1 Timothy 6:20 KJV.

Liz .... I don't honestly know what side to take on this. But I have heard from some theologians that our pets will not be in heaven. I will also quote a well known and accepted author. If I say who I am quoting ... I might be accused of using Snippets. So, if you want the reference ... please contact me. It is found in a well known book in SDA circles.

Redwood,

I did not say that our pets were going to be in heaven. However, I don't believe that our cats and dogs came from tigers and wolves. I believe that there were "parent" cats on the Ark, that had all the genetic information for the different species we have, same goes for dogs. I don't think my Misty will be in heaven, however, I do believe that the "parent" dogs will be and it will be just a matter of time before I can breed them back to getting my Yorkie.

Hey ... Cool thought. And sorry for the misunderstanding.

Liz,

I think your statement

"I don't think my Misty will be in heaven, however, I do believe that the "parent" dogs will be and it will be just a matter of time before I can breed them back to getting my Yorkie."

Is on the right track and the only reason I can think of that God wouldn't provide things that we are used to - that is pets would be if they were bad or would hurt us. Therefore, dog breeding might just be one of the jobs in the new earth!!!

I wouldn't chose that profession, but might put in an order for one when the time comes.

As I understand it, at the time that Revelation was written the phrase "1000 years" did not necessarly mean a litteral number of years, but meant time to have questions answered, that full answers can be given, that there is no need for a quick answer due to being rushed, but you can take all the time you need.

As for pets being in heaven and your argument "Dogs and Cats are "man made" 'devolutions' of original species such as Wolves, Lions and Tigers" May I remind you that Mrs. White pictues early man as fruit and nut eaters and animals as vegtable eaters and we are devolutions from the fruit and nut eaters to eating what was originally designed for animals, and that is if we are vegitarian.

Mrs. White, while believing in a firm 7 days creation, is not as anti-evolution as we conservative Christians tend to be. She has periods of post fall devolution that we are all a part of. If our pets, as a result of their devolution should not be in heaven, than neither should we for our devolution and Chrit's sacrifice is in vain. Also, don't forget, Jesus bore the crown of thorns representing the curse on the earth and animals.

In closing may I share a story? (PS it makes a great childrens story for Sabbath school. I hope many of the readers here will order the book, it's thin and inexpensive):

The monks did not know if he was alive or dead. The emperor called for his death and a group of men kidnapped him and apparently killed him. But there was no body and occasionally came a rumor that the kidnappers took him into hiding to save his life. But as the weeks stretched into months and no firm word, the monks felt that their leader was not going to return. They choose one monk to care for the building while the others left, taking nearly everything that was not nailed down, including several dogs that the monks kept to warn them if someone tried to listen to their discussions. The monk who was left was barely able to hide a small puppy from the others. He wanted it to catch mice and rats and therefore would not feed the puppy, thinking it would make him a better mouser.




One night there was a knock on the door. The monk was surprised and pleased as a burley man with a thick beard came in. The monk made dinner for his guest. As the guest sat down to eat, he saw the puppy and cut off a piece of sausage to feed him. The monk protested but the guest, known as Squire George, ignored the monk as he shared his meal with the puppy. Squire George was the long lost leader of the monastery, returned from hiding to help his friends with some difficult choices. The puppy and Squire George became fast friends, sharing the meal, playing and slept that night together.

The next morning Squire George shaved and went to visit his friends who needed his advice. While his friends were happy that he was alive and to see him again, they were not too welcoming of his advice, and Squire George returned home feeling very sad. Walking in the door the puppy saw him and came running to Squire George, giving him a welcome that only a puppy can give, and Squire George couldn’t help but laugh and while playing with the puppy said “No one else liked me today, but you still like me, you must be a fool to still like me” and the word “Fool” or “Tolpel” (umlaut over the “o”) became the puppy’s name.

The years went by and the friendship between Squire George and Tolpel grew. Squire George married and had children, and Toplel was a part of the family, and probably protected the family since he was still a good mouse and rat catcher, even with sharing in the family meals, and that probably protected Squire George and his family from getting the Plague that came across Europe.

Squire George worked hard and sometimes saw very good results, but other times not so good results, and these times would make Squire George very sad. After one hard day Squire George was feeling very sad. He looked at his life and felt like a failure. He even felt that God could not love him and he was thinking that it was so hopeless that he should just give up his work and give up on God. As he was thinking this, Toplel saw him and gave Squire George the type of friendly greeting that only a beloved dog can give his master, which reminded Squire George of Tolpel’s greeting while still a puppy, Squire George then felt “Tolpel loves me! If Tolpel can love me, I know that Jesus also loves me!” and he recommitted his heart to Jesus and continued with his work, which has been a blessing to all of us, since Squire George was the name that Martin Luther used while hiding from the emperor.

In showing Jesus love to Tolpel by being kind to this puppy, Jesus was able to show his love to Martin Luther through Tolpel. [now would God keep this ministerial dog, a dog who's ministry has reached over the centuries to even bless us, out of heaven?]

This story was adapted from portions of two books, “Tolpel, Luther’s dog” and "Martin Luther" by William Graffan. It’s a small book and part of the story is in Tolpel is in this book and in the two other children’s book Graffan wrote on Luther’s wife. They are excellent books for both young and old. They are available from S. G. Verlag, Brestauerstaasse 15, 38176 Wittenberg/Bortfeld Germany.

Any thoughts or coments???

I liked your story about the puppy; and I do think that GOD can and does use animals to *get* to us sometimes. Jonah's whale, and Balaam's talking donkey come to mind from the Bible. However, I stand behind what I said previously about our pets.

Maybe I a wrong, but I feel that sometimes we get a bit mixed up between our time in heaven and our final home on the earth made new.

I believe that the time spent in heaven will be a time of growing up, physically, mentally, and spiritually. Adam and Eve were probably 2 to 3 times our height. We will develop mentally in heaven, and in the presence of Jesus we will certainly grow spiritually. I haven't read anything that convinces me that there will be animals, etc. in HEAVEN.

We then come to the time of the final judgment and the destruction of sin forever, and then we find that Jesus will create "a new earth" -- and that is when I believe the animals, birds, fish, insects etc will be created. We can be sure that God will create animals that we can have to love. My little Misty was just the right size dog for me -- when I am just 5 feet tall, but, when I have grown to my new height of, say, 12 feet, then I would need to have a dog approximately 2 1/2 times bigger than Misty! I can be assured that my "new earth dog" will be just the right dog for me! And -- there will be no parting!

Beryl

Thank you Beryl for sharing this thought with us. I like what you have said here.

Yes, I agree completely, I always think of the *New Earth* as heaven too. But there is a distinction between "Heaven" where we grow up, and "New Earth-heaven".

On a side note, how did you know I was only five feet tall? That is really funny.

Beryl, I am sure that you will enjoy your wolf in the New Earth. I know that I will enjoy my serpent.

It is almost humorous to see how Earthly-minded we as human beings are. Hot,tempered discussions could easily develop on whether there will be serpents, cats, dogs, hot dogs or wet cats in Heaven!

To be honest, I really ain't concerned a bit about it, because my King knows every single need of mine better than I do myself, and I doubt that I will be able to remember to check whether there are cats, dogs, serpents or bushmen in that Glorious place!

The moment it finally dawns upon us that we are standing on the Sea of Glass before God's Throne (if it ever does!), surrounded by huge, blistering and joyful angels, and beholding the beauty and majesty of Jesus Himself, handing out golden harps and crowns personally to every one of us--I dunno... I can't understand how I won't be sobbing of pure happiness, gratefullness, humbleness, you name it. Everylasting life, totally undeserved!

Makes me scared to death by thinking of my own weaknesses, but it fills my heart with humblenss and sincere love to Jesus when thinking of His promises!

It is always comforting to think about how short this life is compared to the eternity that is about to dawn upon us! He will not fail us no matter what happens, so let us never turn our backs on Him! Now is not the time to let it go, it's just about to begin... :)