He knoweth the way that I take; when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold- Job 23:10

It is said that there is no great loss without some small gain, but this sounds like more than a small one! God knows what He is doing, and will not let your trial come for naught

But there is in Hebrews 11 a list of people who died for naught in this world:

What do you make of that last verse....God planned to give us something better so that they would be made perfect, but only together with us.

What this is saying to me that although they are still dead and buried (they have not yet received the promise of heaven- the better country) they WILL receive the reward when we, those who are also Christ's, receive the promised reward.

The reward comes at the second coming of Christ, to both those faithful through the ages who have died, and those who remain alive

That is how I understand it. Perhaps someone else will have a thought or two more

I don't equate dying without having yet received the promise as dying for naught. This is another one of those things that doesn't seem to faze God as it might us.

God has a purpose in every trial that we face. He invites us to turn to Him and ask, Lord what is your purpose in this experience? God is faithful to limit that which tempts us (1 Cor. 13:10).

And God never wastes pain.


oG

yes..that is true, I think. But it is kinda hard for a dead person to turn to God and ask what the purpose of being dead is. Although I *have* heard the various things people say about it - that perhaps it is saving the person from having to go through something else that would make that person feel even worse.

But it *does* get to be frustrating to be in the refining fires so often... ....my own fault though...

"But it *does* get to be frustrating to be in the refining fires so often... ....my own fault though..."

I can speak as one who has experienced consequences for my choices.
The Bible is very clear that decisions made in life will have certain results. "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" (gal. 6:7). A study of the Bible reveals natural consequences of a number of specific actions. These natual consequences can be considered God's warnings to prevent people from practicing destructive behavior patterns. Jesus warned "Whosoever commiteth sin is the servant of sin" (John 8:32). When a person sins, that one action can lead to a pattern of sin, and eventually one may become a slave to that sinful pattern.

Joy & fulfillment cannot be experienced in life because of the negative consequences that will occur when one is in bondage to sin. Satan wants to blind people to the end result of what will be experienced after a sin is committed. He tempts us by making sin appealing. If people knew the specific consequences of their sin ahead of time, many would choose their actions more carefully. Satan seeks to destroy believers by building a bse of operation through a sinful pattern (Eph. 4:27), through deception (11 Cor. 2:11), and by corrupting their minds (II Cor. 11:3).

When a person begins to practice a sinful pattern he or shee soon becomes particularly vulnerable to its temptation. One who chooses not to commit a particular sin will never have the continual attraction to practice that sin. That is why Paul instructs believers to be wise towards what is good and simple (not having full knowledge) towards that which is evil(Romans 16:19). When a person chooses to refrain from any use of alcohol, he or she will avoid the struggle that an alcoholic has with that addiction. A man who chooses to avoid pornography will never have the inner struggle experienced by men who have exposed their minds to these types of materials.

Many people fail to see the connection between the decisions they made in the past and the difficult situations that they currently experience. For us to be motivated to turn from our sinful behavior, it is important that we recognize the fact that the consequences we are experiencing are a direct result of our own actions. Many people have decided to resolve their problems immediately after making that comnnection. The Bible reveals specific consequences that will occur as a result of a number of sins, and I have often used these to help a person understand his or her behavior and motivate them to acknowledge & confess it as sin. I'll share a story about my own life later, perhaps.

God has the answers,

oG

So does the Evil one. Not all our trials are of God. Satan has his purpose. Many of our trials are of our own making that did not need to happen. Sometimes we make the wrong choices that cause problems. This is not of God.

I was thinking along these lines also. We learn from the story of Job that sometimes Satan makes trouble for us because he can and because he hates God and God's children. Many times it has nothing to do with God.

There is also a verse in the Bible that talks about God laying his servants to sleep (dying) to save them from trouble He foresees. Death does not bother the Lord the way it does us- He's planning to put an end to it anyway.

But it is totally within His power to make good come out of a negative experience. There is a passage of Scripture that the trials of our faith work patience- James 1:3. Actually, the verse before tells us to "count it all joy" when we fall into trials.

I don't mean to throw cold water on this topic, but every time someone comes out with the *trials and tribulations are REALLY good for us* mantra, it reminds me of Karl Marx's statement that "Religion is the opiate of the people." It's what keeps people from moaning and groaning over their circumstances. It's what keeps people in a spiritual and emotional prison. It's what keeps people *in their place* so no changes take place. It's what keeps the masses (or denominations) self-satisfied, as though nothing better could ever be.

There. I've said it!

Are trials good for us? I don't know- that's between you and God.

But there is enough Scripture to know that God does not abandon us during those times. Like Joseph of old, we can say that although it was meant for evil, God made it turn good.

It's not that God will take us away from evil, but He provides a way of escape, a means to bear it or He will shield and protect us from it.

Trials cannot be that great, else we would find them in the New Earth, the final home of the Redeemed.

I don't believe that we as Christians are called to be masochists. Pain and sorrow are the result of sin, and through Christ we have the hope that one they will be no more.

Our rejoicing is in Him :) Thankfully we are not left to ourselves when things go bad

I agree fully. The fact that God can bring good out of all things (Romans 8:28) does not make Him the author of bad things.

The value in understanding the Great Controversy is great.

oG

Good Times can be just as "bad" for us as the bad times.

I agree, Pam!

We SDA's have been taught from birth on that we should always find 'good' in the unpleasant that happens to us...we should pray for trials...we won't be 'fit' for heaven unless...etc, etc. There are many close parallels between SDA and the Judiasm of Christs day. I have come to believe that it is all part of the 'works' mode that so many people say they don't believe in but still practise.

I've been reading Morris Venden's book "the last trolley out". In it he states that a lot of people are waiting until something major happens so that they can jump on the last trolley to heaven. However, crisis doesn't make us who we are, it reveals who we are.
We can't just wait until a crisis to form a relationship with the Lord. We should be working on that day by day.

Somehow I think I may have missed the boat here, as this is the first time I've read this, and I've been a member for 30 years.

We can trust our Heavenly Father to bring us through trials but to actually pray for them? I don't know if anyone is actually willing to do that unless they see themselves as not being connected to the Lord unless they are in crisis.

I do think that they do provide opportunity to grow, but again that is a "make the best of a bad situation" kind of growth, not something I would pray for

If we look again at the Scripture, it shows a trusting in God to make things come out positive

I recall one of the biblical apostles saying "welcome the pain..." in the Newest James Version. Was that Paul's maxim?

Raphael

Consider yourself blessed! Have heard many a sermon on this subject and been part of the discussion that feels the opposite.