One has to have a twisted mind to see the Genesis account of creation as God creating a lie. I would bite my tongue before accusing the Almighty of creating a lie. God's creation reveals the lie of scientific consistency. It leaves the atheistic evolutionist beating his fist on the table and crying foul.

Let's look at how Peter dismantles the idea of consistency.

"Know this first of all, that in the last days scoffers will come (to) scoff, living according to their own desires and saying, 'Where is the promise of his coming? From the time when our ancestors fell asleep, everything has remained as it was from the beginning of creation.' They deliberately ignore the fact that the heavens existed of old and earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God; through these the world that then existed was destroyed, deluged with water."

Notice that these scoffers first do not believe Christ will return. Thus we label them unbelievers. Secondly they believe everything has remained the same since the beginning (consistency). Thirdly they deliberately ignore the supernatural. especially the creation story and the story of the flood. That is a description of the modern-day evolution crowd! Peter saw into the future and he saw what evolutionists would be teaching. There it is. Now we can believe the Bible or choose to believe what the evidence appears to be saying. That is the choice each of us must make for ourselves. But lets not insult God and His Word by trying to ride the fence.

I agree. That is why I prefer the explanation that the Book of Genesis should not be taken as literal history.

/Bevin

Now that sounds like my drill sergeant trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth. Dishonesty in the extreme with the purpose of entrapping its victim. Here is how it plays out.

Drill sergeant X says to drill sergeant Y that a certain private was looking at his hind quarters with sexual desire. Drill sergeant Y then asks the private if that is true. When the private denies it drill sergeant Y then tells drill sergeant X that the private is calling him liar. Drill sergeant X then asks the private if he is calling him a liar. When the private answers no, drill sergeant Y then proclaims that it must then be true that the private was looking at his hind quarters with sexual desire, calls him gay and makes him do push-ups. It is the old, dishonest, gotcha technique.



Creationists that believe in a short-age Earth do not call God a liar. THEIR CRITICS DO! Shame, shame, shame on those critics to try and place that blasphemous behavior onto the God-fearing creationists that believe in the Word of God. If someone wants to use the words "liar" and "God" in the same sentence, they ought not try to lay the guilt of doing such on the doorstep of another.

God creating the world the way He wanted to does not make Him a liar. If he wanted to make elements that appeared to have decayed or an apple tree with ripe apples ready to eat - that was His prerogative and we ought not insinuate in any way makes Him a liar.

Every experiment we can do, every test we make, every applicable scientific advance, every applicable archaeological discovery, for the last 150 years has confirmed that there have been carnivores on Earth for more than 10,000 years - usually confirm for more than 100,000 to 1,000,000 years.

The short-age creationists can not explain why this is so. They have no explanation for the apparent long-age of life on Earth other than "God made it that way".

They are saying that God has made the Earth look like life has been on it for millions of years.

They are saying, without realizing it, that God is a liar.

It is better to say that our understanding of Genesis might be wrong.

/Bevin

Bevin, what is faith? Do we have faith in God's word only when our human reasoning tells us that it is reasonable and agrees with us?

True faith is believing God and doing what He says even when it does not agree with human reasoning. For instance, did it make good sense to Eve that she could not eat of a single particular tree in the garden? Did it make good sense to Abraham to take his only son up to the mount to kill him? And does it make good sense to keep the Sabbath every week only on Saturday? I mean, does the seventh-dayness of the Sabbath recommend itself to human reasoning? (If so, please explain why or how.)

Therefore, I would conclude that if we only choose to believe God and obey Him when He agrees with our human judgment, we don't really trust God; we are showing we trust human judgment, and then once God agrees with us, we also "trust" Him. But that is not the Bible's view of trust or faith.

If you had witnessed the creation of Adam, less than a few minutes after he was made, wouldn't you have maintained that science shows Adam had been alive for years? Was God lying? According to the record, Adam didn't have to learn language or abstract thinking, and he was created as an adult, not as an infant.

And of course I am assuming you believe in Adam, but in this I clearly may be mistaken. I realize you may also want to say that the record of Adam's first day is mythical and symbolic and therefore does not mean exactly what it says, so that we can't really know anything about the first man.

What, by the way, do you believe about death and sin? The Bible says plainly that death and sin came into the world through one man's sin (that is, Adam's). Yet you must believe that death was part of life from the very beginning and was in fact part of God's plan. Am I right? If so, how do you harmonize that view with the Bible's and how then do you understand the need of salvation from sin?

I am involved in a discussion with a guy at my work about this because he believes that the Big Bang proves God's existence but he hasn't studied the Bible enough to understand what it says about death. He thinks when God said Adam would die if he ate the fruit, God only meant spiritual death. He believes animals and people always died physically. But yet Genesis 2: 17; 3: 19, 22-24 shows that both Genesis and Paul are obviously talking about physical death-- the fact that we stop breathing and cease to live. (Compare Rev. 21: 4; 22: 1-5; 1 Cor. 15.)

This is a dishonest cop-out. Creationists are not saying, without realizing it, that God is a liar. Exactly the opposite. Creationists are saying that we can take God at His Word.

What the critics are saying is that if the Christian God created the Earth as the Bible claims, then the Christian God is a liar.

I believe the Bible. That is not to say I could never change my mind. But as of today, I believe the Bible. The Bible is very clear about the matter.

Yes, I agree. In the literal Genesis God could have created Adam with a belly-button, even though he was not born.

But that is NOT the issue. The issue is the fossils, the metamorphic rocks, the ice cores, the distribution of animals across the land mass, DNA, the biology of carnivores ALL show evidence of EVOLUTION and DEATH for hundreds of thousands to millions of years.

This "Adam looked aged" argument doesn't apply - Adam would not have had an appendectomy scar, Eve would not have had a C-section scar. The Earth has such scars.

/Bevin

I also believe the Bible is God's Holy Book. I just disagree with you on what it means. I believe it means something consistent with God's Earth. You believe it means something which is inconsistent with God's Earth.

I believe what God wrote in the Earth and in His Book is consistent.

You believe what God wrote in the Earth and in His Book is inconsistent.

You believe God is a liar.

/Bevin

I have faith that the bible is accurate and have no problem believing in it. I have no problem believing that satan can distort the evidence to say anything that he would like it to say. I believe if God wanted us to find the evidence's that we would like to find than there would be no reason for anybody to have Faith. Didn't the priests ask Jesus to perform a miracle and than they would believe in him? And didn't the people say to themselves that jesus could heal and do this and that but that he couldn't save himself and that if would just come down from the cross, that they would believe that he was the Messiah? You probably think this lame both its my 2 cents worth.

pkrause