In the Bible, what makes a demand, a law? When does a law become a law. Is it a law because God has spoken and/or is it a law because Moses has spoken it? Who determines what a law is? In the Bible, OT and NT does a law need to be associated with a covenant? Did Jesus change the laws, and if so, which ones and why?

First I'd like to see what we understand the law is. There are more than one of them. So that when Paul says, we are not under the law what law is he talking about? etc...

I know I've asked several questions here but pick one and answer what you can.

Norman

The whole law - the first, five book of the OT [which houses the moral law also]!

What you need to ask is what does it mean to be "under law"?

Romans 2:11 For there is no partiality with God. [Why?] 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law; and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; [why?] 13 for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified!

This is very clear! God doesn't care if you are a Gentile who is "without the law" [a knowledge of the law] or a Jew who is "under the law". Why? Because whether you are a Gentile or a Jew you stand under the jurisdiction of God's law and "under law" it is concerned with one thing: Perfect, unblemished obedience! That's one meaning of the phrase to be "under law"! How so? Look at verse 13! It says that "the doers of the law will be justified." Nothing about condemnation here although all Christians know that we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God and hence we also stand condemned under the law.

So to be "under law" means that you must obey to be justified, but if you fail even in one point, then it condemns you to the 2nd death.

Robert

How can we answer, "what does it mean to be under the law," if we don't have a clear defintion of the law. For example in Gal 3:19 it says,

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The law was add because of transgression. Transgression of what? Well the law of course, then what law was added because or the transgression of the law that already existed? What law is what?

There needs to be a clearification of the "Law" In this case the law is not the same thing. We cannot ignore this fact that a law was added because a current law was being transgressed.

Obvisously the law that was being transgressed is the 10 Commanment law? So what law was added because of it's trasngression? Was it the law of sacrifices, circumcision, civil laws or health laws, what law what added?

Norman

Let's look at the context: Gal 3:17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19 Why the Law then? It was added [for the sake of defining] transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed [Jesus] should come to whom the promise had been made.

The NASB reads, "For the sake of defining transgressions." In other words the law was added to make sins into transgressions.

It's like you're going down a road 90mph. You didn't know it was 55mph, yet technically you sinned. Then the Highway Department posts a sign that says 55mph. Now if you go 90mph you are transgressing the law because now it is posted.

The question is what law came "four hundred and thirty years" after God made His covenant with Abraham?

Ex 12:40 says, "Now the time that the sons of Israel lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. 41 And it came about at the end of four hundred and thirty years, to the very day, that all the hosts of the Lord went out from the land of Egypt."

Three months later the sons of Israel came into the wilderness of Sinai: Ex 19:1 In the third month after the sons of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on that very day they came into the wilderness of Sinai....3 And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying,...5 ‘Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own...."

What was the covenant established? Look at the context of Gal 3:10 -- "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

What is "the book of the law"? The first, five books of the Old Testament. This was brought out in the 1888 GC. There EGW said that the law in Galatians was both the ceremonial and the moral law, with emphasis on the moral. I don't have that quote, but you can look it up!


Rob

but transgression is sin.

The book of the law: (ASV) Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

In Chapters 27-31 the book of the law is spoken of and finally it was place beside or in the side (outside) of the Ark of the Covenant. Deut is a recap of all that took place from the time Moses delivered the COI till they were about to enter into the Promised Land.

In order to maintain their place in the Promised Land they had to obey the covenant they entered into with God. That covenant had a law that was in place to obey. What was given at Sinai was a reiteration of what was given in the past. Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The COI had lost the importance of the law in Egypt and needed to learn what God was like, how much He loved them and what He required of them.

They were promised an earthly Canaan and we are promised a heavenly Canaan. Much better promise to us, if we as they, obey the covenant of which God has written its laws in our hearts. There is no covenant without a law to be kept.

Norman

Let's go back before the human race was created. The Bible tells us there was a war in heaven and we know that Satan and his angels were expelled. They were expelled because they were in opposition to Jesus and the law of heaven, love. The 10 Commandments were in existance there.

How can angels honor their mother and father you might say? How can spirits committ adultery you might also say? Well, adultery is a spiritual violation of the law as well. The COI were constantly being told of their adultery in worshiping other gods. Honoring your father and mother can spiritually refer to those who are in authority over you, which reveals the organization in God's kingdom. There has been a law as long as there has been God, and that's forever.

When Adam and Eve were created they came to life with that law written in their hearts. But God added what appears to be another law which would reveal their love for God. This was not really another law, but a point of reference that summarized all the laws. In other words the 10 Commandments were summarized in this one law. If she ate she revealed that she chose another god before God, Satan. If she ate, it revealed that she did not honor God's authority. If she ate, it meant the she stole what was not hers etc...

After that There was truly another law or ordinance introduced that was not in being utilized in heaven. That was the law(s) for sacrifice, the same ones that Cain refused to obey. That law was added because of transgression.

When Satan tempted Eve with the choice of eating the fruit for wisdom and life, she was in the same situation as the RYR in a sense. Eve had a choice to make, take the fruit and get all the riches that the serpent was offering her or give that all up and stay in obedience to God and keep the riches He had already given her and had stored up for her in the future.

Her choice was obey and live and the RYR's choice was obey Christ and live. She had to avoid a tree and give up the promise of riches in wisdom that Satan offered and her; the RYR had to avoid his riches and wisdom and give them up, in order to live.

Norman

Deuteronomy 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, that bare the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying, 26 Take this book of the law [the book of Deuteronomy], and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

There are five books that make up the book of the law. The moral law is contained in them!

Of course it is. The Torah contains all of God's laws. But the moral law was also kept separate and clearly distinct from the other laws. God spoke the moral law only "and then said no more;" and God wrote it on tables of stone, then put it INSIDE the ark. It was the breaking of the moral law that was sin and caused people to have to sacrifice a lamb, etc. The moral law was/is the legal basis of both the Old and the New Covenants. That it still applies under the New Covenant is proven by Rev. 11: 19. It remains in the ark in the heavenly sanctuary above. God's law is the only thing in the ark. Paul said faith in Christ did not free him from God's law. It is this law that will judge unrepentant violators of God's law in the Judgment. The moral law is eternal as God Himself is eternal because it is an expression of His immutable, loving and righteous character.

Follow carefully and study the book of Deuteronomy.

These be the words which Moses spoke unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red sea, between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab. (There are eleven days journey from Horeb by the way of mount Seir unto Kadesh-barnea.) And it came to pass in the fortieth year, in the eleventh month, on the first day of the month, that Moses spoke unto the children of Israel, according unto all that the LORD had given him in commandment unto them; After he had slain Sihon the king of the Amorites, which dwelt in Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, which dwelt at Astaroth in Edrei: On this side Jordan, in the land of Moab, began Moses to declare this law, saying, Deu 1:1-5

From this point on Moses is summarizing what has happened in the last 40 years and gives them instruction and warnings. He did this all in that one day and wrote this all down in a book, the book of the law and had it placed in the side of the Ark. This is undisputable fact; read the Bible and see for yourself; I will highlight some verses.

Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.(That is, Mt Sinai) Deu 5:1,2

Then Moses goes on to repeat the 10 Commandments and afterwards said, Deu 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

In Ch 27&28 Moses pronounces the curses and blessing. Then in Ch 29:1 These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. Here we have two covenants mentioned, the one at Horeb which is Mt Sinai and this one that was being made that day.

move down to 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law: This again is referring to the curses in Ch 27&28 and the book of the law that Moses was writing that day.

Then move on to Ch 30:10; If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. This again is talking about the same book of the law that Moses was writing that day.

And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing. Deu 31:9-33 Again the same book as we have been discussing. Finally we end with this.

Deu 31:24
And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? Deu 31:24-27

Here's a NT related verse: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:14