I have three homosexual male friends. Two practising and one nonpractising. I do not believe any of them can change. The nonpractising one has been warmly embraced and accepted by his Adventist Church family for several years. He plays the organ and is an excellent Sabbath School teacher! He is still a homosexual and knows it. So.........how should he change? He will always be a homosexual even if he wants to change.

A really excellent question, Darlene.

It is very important to distinguish between the sin that is involved in homosexuality, etc., and the "being homosexual" of and by itself. The Bible condemns the acts of, and, of course, the sinful desires, that usually accompany "the homosexual orientation." There will certainly be homosexuals saved in God's kingdom, but none who continued to practice it and who refused to allow God to empower them to live righteously for Him. That is definitely and clearly the message of 1 Cor. 6: 9-11 as well as John 3: 3, 7.

What applies to gay or bisexual people here applies equally to heterosexual people, despite the fact that modern society would like to forget that. That is probably why there are those even within the SDA church who want to change or forget the moral law of God. It steps on a lot of already sore toes.
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I have a question along this line that I will try to answer Biblically tomorrow. (Perhaps, however, an Adventist or non-Adventist pastor-- or non-pastor for that matter--would like to give an answer here first.)

If a gay person accepts Christ, can't he continue practicing his gay lifestyle in the assurance that Christ's righteousness covers his sins? If that is true, can't he be saved during his homosexual practices? Why does he need to give them up if his faith releases him from the law of God that says it is a sin to do those things?

To make it personal, once I have accepted Christ by faith, why should I be lonely for a man's companionship and refuse to act on my desires? Won't Christ's robe of righteousness cover that behavior so that I can be saved irrespective of my homosexual behavior? Does the behavior even matter?

I wonder how many of the fingers pointing to the sin of homosexuality are fingers of those having sex outside of marriage? In the SDA church? Oh yes it's happening. But it's easier to focus on anothers sin than to face one's own.

So true Amelia, but we cannot condone either if we want to have a heart with Jesus at the center. We are all sinners saved by grace. Without that undeserved favor we would perish in our sinful hearts. Remember that our hearts are desperately wicked and beyond cure without the Savior.

Focusing on Jesus gives us perspective in a world that wants to minimize sin.

Without the vine the branches wither.

2 way communication is fine. If you want to listen to their agenda, that's your prerogative. I already know what it is.

No, we have nothing to boast about, because as I said previously, it takes supernatural power for ANY sinner to change. A homosexual can no more change than an adulterer, an inveterate thief, a serial killer or a gossiper. So, no, we have nothing to boast about except the power of God.

Gerry

If we want to minister to somebody it is ALWAYS good to hear their EXPERIENCE. We know the agenda but we don't know their experience. I have found that hearing their experience puts me in a place where the Spirit can use me.

Thanks John for your testimony. It helped mature the nature of the discussion.

I know your question is a carry over from discussions elsewhere. I don't really want to get into that ongoing battle but here's my simple answer:

Amplified Bible:
Romans 3:31 Do we then by [this] faith make the Law of no effect, overthrow it or make it a dead letter? Certainly not! On the contrary, we confirm and establish and uphold the Law.

ESV. Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Faith enables the law to be written on our hearts which was God original plan (Jeremiah 31:33) Coming to faith in Jesus Christ gives the Homosexual, Murderer, Adulturer the power receive forgiveness and also a tranformation which means that he/she can resist temptation.

If the homosexual believes that sexual relations with a person of the opposite sex are are sinful he has the power available to him from God to resist those temptations.

[Phil. 2:13]---'It is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.'

Thank you, Lazarus. I completely agree with your answer here. You've managed to say in a few lines all that is probably necessary to say about it on this thread.

In a sense you are right about the question being also related to a discussion on another thread, but the real reason I asked the question here is that there are many people who are uncertain of what the Bible says on this issue.

Yes, unfortunately an all-too-human trait that plagues us all to a degree, in one way or another.

John,

I have done some research on this topic, (knowing what the Bible says about this) and hav come to some conclusions that most people won't like. It's right there in Eomans and it seems as though we hae overlooked it, at least I did. Here's what it says:
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. Rom 1:25-27

Reading through that and looking carefully at what Paul has said tells me hat the desire itself is wrong, not only the act. This reveals to me that the whole idea of sexual oerientation, is just an attempt by Satan to deceive, trap and cause people to be lost by the idea that "you are born this way".

I will post more on this if it is wanted. I don't hve time right now must run to work.

Norman