There is no doubt that God has the power to help gay people "change". The only question is if the gay person believes that. One thing for sure is that if a gay person is convinced that any change is impossible, for him or her it really IS impossible. Because any permenant change is only possible because of faith in God and in His promises.

Without going into too much unnecessary detail, I lived a gay life-style for over 35 years. Through much of those years I beleived in the SDA doctrines and attended SDA schools and the SDA church. I graduated with a theology degree from an SDA university and worked for a time as an associate pastor (along with the father of a general conference president).

I also had gender dysfunction which meant that I felt that I was really female, and I still have this. Only a few years ago I was planning on getting SRS and was taking female hormones. I dressed as a female on the streets and had every intention of making a complete transition.

What made the difference for me in the final analysis is that I gave myself completely to Jesus Christ. I realized that I had not done this up to that time. I had always kept back certain parts of me. For years I was not willing to give him my female side. I loved that side of me. I loved my favorite "sins," and didn't want to let go of them. But finally I decided I wanted Jesus to take that part of me, too. I confessed those things and repented of them and asked Jesus to be Lord and Master of my whole life. I did that every day, and still do it every day. Every day and every moment I am conscious of His presence with me, helping me with His Spirit to overcome and become more like Him.

Do I have temptations and desires to do those things still? Yes, those temptations come to me and those desires do come, but they are not as strong now as they once were. Before I surrendered 100% of me to Christ, those things were overwhelming. They consumed my whole being and all of my thoughts day and night. Now I am consumed with a desire to live for Jesus and a desire to share the good news with other people. When I feel the old temptations and the old desires coming back, I read passages of scripture-- my favorites are 2 Peter 1, Romans 8, and 1 John--and thank Jesus that He is with me. In over 2 years I have never known a time when such study and prayer has not delivered me from those temptations and sins. In fact, I can honestly say that it is my consciousness of my weaknesses that keep me sensative to Jesus' and the Spirit's presence.

So, can gays change?

Yes, they can change but only under certain condition. These are:

1) 100% surrender to Jesus Christ for Him to be Lord and Master of all of our thoughts and every moment of our lives.

2) Complete distrust of one's self but absolute Trust of the Father and of Jesus Christ.

3) Daily invitation to the Holy Spirit to take over one's life.

4) A realization that without the new birth, or the birth from above, it is impossible for any real change to take place.

5) A realization that in union with Christ, God sees me as righteous as His own Son.

6) The firm conviction based on Scripture that God has the power to help me overcome every temptation and every defect, including inherited ones.

7) Belief in the promises of God and the conviction that He cannot lie and that I can absolutely depend on Him to do what He has promised. Remember the Bible says, "He has promised and HE WILL DO IT."

8) NEVER excusing ANY of my sins but always practicing 1 John 1: 6 through 1 John 2: 4.

9) Complete honesty with yourself and with God.

10) Envisioning myself sitting in heavenly places NOW with Jesus Christ.

PS. The Gay Liberation Front, of which I was an early member, hates this message and doesn't want anyone to believe it. They will deny it and fight anyone who teaches it or believes it.

One would think that if they could change, they would. Their lives are not much fun. My thought is that considering how society treats them, that nobody would choose to live outside of the norm.

I forgot to add something really important. One shouldn't think that it is necessarily part of God's plan for the gay person to become heterosexual, or consider the opposite sex in the same way that "straights" do. God could perform a miracle in that way but He doesn't always do that. Usually God chooses to be with us through our temptations and empowering us to overcome them rather than taking them away. As we obey Him and act on His promises, we usually find that the pull of the temptations become less and less strong. However, this can take years and therefore requires continuing faith and perseverence, and it also requires support from Christian friends, family, and the church.

Be prepared to obey God's moral law in these matters no matter what, even if He chooses to leave you with your attractions for members of the same sex. There is nothing wrong in those attractions. The sin lies in the desire to act them out in a sexually active way. Jesus can and does take those desires away but it is not something He does overnight. Be prepared for a long battle against self and sin but with Christ in one's life and by one's side the victory is certain.

Thanks much for that impelling testimony of God's power, John.

Bravus, hello friend. I understand what you're saying, all right.

The alterable side of man is the power to choose. We have thought amiss, think again, and think aright. This is repentance, a better bias of the soul.

In spite of what people convince themselves of, God's truth will always exist. It will stand fast, though the vapor of life spins around it. What people disapproved of yesterday, they may well approve tomorrow (Isa. 5:20). Does that alter God's truth? Not at all-we are unable to change that.

So postmodernism substitutes external (the Lord) truth for internal impulse. "Where do these desires (lusts) come from..." says James (James 4:1-2). The answer, they come from our sinful nature. Thus my internal impulses (CN) will lead me to death (James 1:15) if I follow it AND justify it rather than repenting of it.

Regarding the gay agenda specifically, the immutability of that position is fixed upon a dual lie. Break the lies and change will come.

We have thought amis, think again, and think aright. This is repentance, the clear road to freedom from sin.

We should lift each other up in prayer that the Holy Spirit will heal, convict, and bring the changes that God desires. "Let him who stole steal no more."

the other Gerry

This is not really true for most gay people that I have known. In fact, there are certain things about the gay life-style that are very "fun" in a worldly sort of way. There is a lot of jealousy and back-biting and such, of course, but mostly they are very caring toward each other in a way that one rarely finds among straight men.

Yes, certain unpleasantries do go along with being gay, such as how certain elements in society treats them. But that is not something most gays find so bad that they consider giving up being gay.

Being gay is rarely something someone wakes up to one morning and decides to be gay, any more than that is how people become heterosexual. So gays don't think of it as something they can change or alter.

A miserable life as a gay person was certainly not the reason I chose to change. The only reason I chose to change was that I was under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, who I believe gave me the desire to allow Him to change me. Otherwise I never would have changed. I had many good times (from the fleshly viewpoint) while being in that lifestyle. Sin really can be very enjoyable; it's foolish to deny this; and it's something that Satan takes full advantage of. But those "good times" were nothing compared to the fulfillment I have in my relationship to Jesus Christ today. I wouldn't ever give that up for all the excitement and fun of living that way again. When Jesus comes into the life in the way that He wants to, He replaces all those sinful desires with desires for righteouness and obedience to God. That becomes the all-consuming desire of one's life. You really do become a new person, just like the Bible says.

You have been there done that so you know far more than I. I speak of observation. I know that the gay community is very caring of each other and that it isn't much different than leaving a church group. You have many ties and much support.
I have several very good friends who are gay. A friend of the last 10 years is top notch in her profession, but twice she has had to to into drug rehab. She is on her last chance to remain in her field. My observation is that the minute she came out of the closet. . . her life has been on a downward spiral. I love her, respect her, do nearly anything to help her in our work situation, but I ache because I think she is miserable. She is the reason I think that you would change if you could.
Rosie ODonnel seems pretty miserable to me, and she confirmend what I thought about support in the community. She turned down the price is right because she did not want to uproot her kids, and she did not want to leave their community. I took that as her gay community frinds.

Thanks so much for your testimony, John: being willing to speak here is part of what helps with the listening Aldona talked about.

As it happens one of the PhD students I am supervising is studying gay Christian men (and will extend the study to lesbians this year). It is very illuminating (and humbling) to read the transcripts of his interviews with his participants, who are currently in a wide variety of places, from rejection of Christianity at one end, through various accommodations between faith and sexuality to celibacy in God's power at the other end of the continuum. At least one tried 'conversion therapy' and found it didn't work. (This is not my normal research area, but through a train of circumstances I was involved in 'rescuing' this student who was in danger of falling out of the program. Not that it really matters, but he's not a gay man himself.)

I wouldn't want to deny the validity of your observations. They are no doubt true of the people you know, for instance, your friend in drug rehab.

I would say that her only real hope is a conversion experience with Christ and then following the things I outlined, but this would take a lot of prayer on the part of people like you and a decision on her part. I found out that a lot of people were praying for me for years, including a whole congregation, and I have no question that such prayers are effectual and the reason people finally turn to the Lord.



Yes, exactly. It can be frightening to leave these supports and these friends. But when you become a committed Christian and cease living in a gay lifestyle, you have to realize that your gay friends will almost never choose to stay by you or associate with you. They usually don't want to hear talk about Jesus and you don't like the kind of things they talk about, either. And unfortunately, one cannot depend on that kind of close support from the church. So ultimately you have to depend more on the Lord than on humans. And the tragedy is that while you are living for Jesus, even other Christians and SDAs can call you names or say you are a legalist. Satan uses all kinds of people, even especially some people in the church, who, astonishing tho' it may seem, are probably convinced they are doing you a favor.



No doubt. But I don't think her misery is directly attributable to being "gay." As it happens, most of the miserable people are heterosexual, but the reason for misery are many and very varied. Rarely is misery per se directly tied to the gender of our sexual partners or to our self-identity. Ms. O'Donnel herself seems to have very poor judgment and also seems to enjoy talking badly about certain people as well as against almost all of America. She appears to me like a person who sorta enjoys her own torment. She is certainly not attacked for being gay-- just the opposite, in fact-- but she is attacked for other reasons.



Well she would certainly find a supporting gay community in LA, but she probably doesn't want to leave behind her old friends back East.

That is an awesome and beautiful testimony. Thank you for sharing it with us.

While attending Loma Linda U., I went to a well-known SDA psychologist and therapist. He didn't really know how to help me at that time because his idea was that it was "normal". He did tell me he could do certain things to help me, using various psychological techniques and behavior therapy. However, he never pointed me to Christ.

I also went for counseling to a leading pastor at the University church for a number of years, but again he never did point me to Jesus Christ.

I'm not putting down these people who did what they could to help me, but the point I am making is that none of these people ever pointed me to Jesus Christ and to the necessity of surrending my entire life to Him. I think maybe they didn't feel comfortable doing that, or perhaps they assumed (wrongly but understandably) that since I was a theology major, I had already given my whole life over to Christ. Or maybe they hadn't done that themselves. In any case, I know that the pastor left his wife for another woman shortly after I stopped going to our counseling sessions. Sadly he died, of cancer, outside the church a few years after this. So, these men that were trying to help me had their own "demons" they were dealing with. Is it any wonder then that they did not point me to Jesus Christ?