David said-

quote:

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Let me understand what you are saying. Ellen White says not to criticise those in authority in the church. Change requires criticism. Adventist are resistant to change. We need to paint a pretty picture.

I do not believe that Jesus wants us to take no action when something is harmful, or means losing students because of a person or persons becoming stumbling blocks to others, just because that person is someone in authority in the church.

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Criticism....the stuff that create division...especally negitive criticism. If you any sort of keen intelligence, you will notice that criticism also involves positive criticism. We don't do that much...We look at the bad, emphaize it to it darkest extremes and point out the darkest results.

To get things done in a positive mannor, one only needs to point out the positive things that are available. When it comes to our kids, what are we really interested in? Aren't we interested in kids who are smart and have a solid Christian background? If so, nothing less than that is acceptable, correct? Our schools are not meat markets that churn out intelligent kids with no christian background, nor do they churn out christian kids who can not read a book...We deal with our children with professionals [aka "teachers"] who make the recommendations to us parents who want the best for our children. The schoolboard also wants the best for our children, and anything less that what is presented here should be scrapped. School boards should suppport the professionals that we employ and should guide the direction of the school. To change the direction of the school board needs some research and positive statements to move the school in the better direction.

I know that that is idealistic. I could say that that is the idea that EGW had in mind, but I would be appealing to you to stop thinking. I know that many on a school board use EGW statements to hide behide, coaerse the changing of teachers, direction of the school, discissions, ect. To me, this is just shameful.

We have a brain. it is God given and it can take in information and analyse it and make conclusions...Interestingly enough, many brains working toward the same goal usually achieve a very favorable outcome....

HELLO

SAT scores? Could you mean Iowa Basic or Stanford, or some other test given to Elementary-High School level students, or are you refering to state mandated tests in your state (if given)?

You don't want to teach to those tests. You want students to grasp the main concepts of each subject, and build on that each year. I have seen students passed who shouldn't have been. However, not being the teacher involved, I can't second guess the teacher involved. Parental pressure is strong, and usually the first thing out of such a parents mouth is "I am paying alot of good money for them to go here".

At the Junior High level in our schools, we usually have one teacher teach all subjects to the students, unlike the public schools where the have a teacher teach their area of specialization, ie. Math only. We are expected to be experts in all subjects, sometimes without a single planning period a week, unlike our public school counterparts who often get at least one planning period a day. Also, we have to assume before and after school supervision, extra-curricular events, and other duties which we would volunteer for and be paid for in the public sector.

All this we do on the name of "Christian Service". Yet, unlike our public school counterparts, we risk school closure, or lay offs from reduction in student enrollment, and we often must relocate all over the country every so often to advance or due to cuts, budget, etc.

Does this excuse poor academics? No. However, there are some really hard working teachers out there who sacrifice their own family time, social life, and stretch their expertise beyond what is possible, to do the best job we can. Did I mention that sometimes we have unqualified administrators, and a revolving door of board members to interact with too?

What is the solution? There isn't an easy one. If all of the church members could get together in an area, and support the school, weed out the poor teachers and administrators, and help volunteer in the classroom or on field trips, than maybe our schools would improve their academic standards.

End of sermon!

Dave Davison

[ June 25, 2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Dave Davison ]

Interesting to relate a conversation I had with a leader of a large midwestern church, one of whose values is to take "irreligious people" and lead them to be "fully devoted followers of Christ". This church, which could certainly afford it, does not have a church school associated with it. I, among many others, asked the leadership, "Why not?" The answer may surprise you.

"One of our values is to reach unchurched and irreligious people. We teach that value to our children from toddler on up. We teach them to value friendships with unchurched people, and when the time is right, to invite them into giving it a try. Why would we want to set up an environment where our kids would be SEPARATED from the very kids we want them to reach?"

Interesting that these people believe that the church and the home are fully capable of training up a child with enough strength in Christ, and enough stability in their beliefs and relationship to the church, for them to be "missionaries" to their local schools!!! Interesting that we do not.

Jack

Just a quick note.

The problem that I have found within the UK is nepotism. That is the real issue and why issues are not being resolved. I have said it before, everyone is either related or friends of friends.

Whilst it is a great idea to keep going at it and be positive, the fact is that after a while you find that it is almost impossible to deal with a board where everyone is either good friends or related. Professionalism is not on the agenda!

I really wish it was. As I have said before our schools should be a beacon.

I have come home from school today where a non-adventist mother is about to take her issues to the top and beyond.

Her daughter was dragged around the playground by 2 girls by a rope around her neck. When questioning the teacher she was told that it's agame the girls play in the playground. When her mother said that it was unacceptable. She was told by the teacher that her daughter "gives as good as she gets".

Please recognise that you can't stay in a school where the mentally is like this. When this mother told the Head Mistress her child was being bullied,(after coming home day after day with bruises and scratches and not a note from the teacher) She was told "It couldn't possibly be happening".

Not all adventist schools are like this I agree. But in the cold light of day when this is happening, you can't just say that the school might be closed down if parents vote with their feet. With a Head such as this and teachers who allow such nonsense to go on. It should be closed down.

I can't possibly go into all my reasons for fustration. But I am an active parent and even that is not welcomed. I want my child to have a good christian & academic education but not at any cost.

I hope that this clears up some of the feelings that have been shown by some of the disgruntalled parents and students on this thread.

Blessings

Fifiqueen

Fifiqueen:

I am shocked about the behavior at your school. If you feel that you cannot change it, then leave it! Remember, Ellen White spoke out against Battle Creek College in her day when things weren't right.

I will pray for your family.

Dave Davison

[ June 26, 2002, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Dave Davison ]

I was checking to see if there were anymore comments onthis topic. I know we have some new members, and thought they might want to read the postings, and share any good or bad experiences.

Mr. D

I have wondered why there are so many people my age not in the church anymore. I wasn't raised Adventist so I think (but am not very sure) that the Adventist church has changed. I think the Adventist school system has changed too. My children are doing well and so are the kids I see there.
It is sad that we as a denomination crucify each other, but I believe things are better because you and I can make it better.
K
K

Mr. D:

On the Jr and Sr level of High School, SAT and PSAT scores are available and quite helpful.

On lower levels Iowa Basic, and other such would likely be available.

Not long ago I worked one summer for an SDA camp. The kids were adorable and although some were problamatic nothing compared to the Teen camp when they arrived. A great deal of them were bilgerent and had a surly attitude. They seemed to delight in picking on each other, saying insulting things and complaining. These kids came from public schools, christian schools, SDA schools, the whole gamet.
I asked the camp director (a very godly man) if I could do a worship one night on the topic of missions. He granted my request but said something to the effect of "make it short. These kids aren't much into listening." (That was a very true statement. Of course some were dear young people as well but like I said, there were some who were incredibly problemematic.) I prayed much about this and went to work on a mission talk with power point pictures. (I have done quite a bit of mission work through the years etc.)

My topic was "God needs Special Forces". At first the kids were squirming, whispering loudly, or sleeping. However, I challenged them that God is looking for young people like themselves to join his "Special Forces". Specia Forces that will go fearlessly into the battle. I told them many stories of God's miraculous power, how he has used many ordinary people and that there is no "high" like working for God and experiencing Him working through you. The place became deadly quiet. Thirty minutes later the camp director was motioning me to continue if I had more to say. I talked to those kids for about 1 hour. I challenged them with the thought that God had an amazing plan for their lives and a challenging but rewarding job he was calling them to. That no matter their chosen careers, this was the time in earth's history to stand up, to make a difference, to join God's Special Forces etc etc. AT the ened, we turned the lights back up and I was shocked to see some of the kids crying. The others were very sober.

There was one young man in particular who was just incredibly obnoxious, mean spirited and difficult to love. He came up to me with tears in his eyes and asked me (I was shocked! I didn't think he knew how to cry....) "But do you REALLY think God could use me? You have no idea how bad I am, on the inside. I don't want to be the way I am but I have had no hope of doing anything worthwhile. My father drinks a great deal. My Mom is an SDA but I have been pulled the way of my father. But....if God could use me....wow that would be awsome! Would he help me change? Could I really become an influence for good and not bad? If what you say is true, then there is meaning in life and I want that!" Needless to say I was deeply touched. I prayed with this young man and many others.

I am not some gifted orator but what our young people want and need is to be challenged for the Lord. They don't need an endless list of rules or the philosophy that "all rules are wrong and just do what is right for you." . The first squelches a relationship with Jesus and the later makes religion nothing more than baby food. Could it be that we have given our young people just enough religion to immune them to a vibrant on fire relationship with Jesus? Could it be that what they need is not more "religion" but an experience with Jesus that says "Wherever you lead me I will go". An experience that shows that the teachings our church hold dear has a direct bearing on their daily lives. That God has an answere to their perplexities. That the Bible is relavant to their life no matter their age? Yes, teach them Bible doctrines, Yes there needs to be rules but more importantly a relationship with Jesus that takes ahold of the soul, that inspires them with God's great love AND direction for their lives.

One thing I think our young people need is to experience God working through them. There is NOTHING compared to seeing God work first hand. I believe that our church needs to be much more active in mission trips, both here and abroad. Give kids the chance to preach, to work with medical teams, to see the poverty that most of the world lives in. They will come back from these trips on fire for Jesus (I know, I have seen it happen on numerous occasions!). They will come back not just knowing in theory that God can do anything but experiencing it for themselves. They will come back grateful for what they have and realize that the poorest of them is "rich" by comparison to many others in this world. They will come back knowing the God can work through their shyness and give them a holy boldness for God. They will come back with a vision. AFter taking them on a foreign mission trip, have them do something radical in the USA for the Lord. The sky is the limit. And don't think that the poorest of students can't afford such a trip. God has a thousand ways to provide for us of which we know nothing! Maybe in another post I will tell you a story about a girl that came from a family of 6 kids, blue color parents and no way to afford a trip and how God miraculously financed it! (It is an amazing story!)

College isn't just to find a career, it is for studying what God has called you to be. Live work should be a calling not just a career. That doesn't mean they have to be pastors. God calls people to all kinds of careers where they can influence those around them for God, where they can use their monies earned to help the local church and missions.


What our kids need is a mission in life, adults who show them a passion for loving the things of God, an experience that shows them that God can use them and help them overcome the areas which are hindering their work for God. Young people don't want to be just entertained (there is a place for just relaxing of course). They want and need to be challenged, whether they realize it or not. They need to come in contact with a Christianity that works, that is vibrant, purposful, and meaningful.

Now I will get off my soap box. lol I just feel so strongly about this and yes I think that some of our schools are doing this and that they all could if they were to catch this vision. God is awsome! There is no limit to what he is willing to do. We are living in the last few hours of this earth's history. Lets go for "broke" (Give it all we can.), for the sake of the gospel and our great commission.