Also, I want to clarify something here. It's one thing for a man to just simply tell me "I don't want to marry you" because he just doesn't want to, or "I don't have those feelings for you" because he just doesn't. That's his right and choice and I'll never disagree or argue with that. It's just the idea that God has this "perfect for him" woman out there, who lines up with certain rules that he holds for her, which I don't line up with, and it doesn't matter how much love that man has for me - I'm just not the right one for him... I can't at all agree with that line of reasoning. Sometimes, it's better to just be honest about what you do and don't want, and leave it at that. Blaming a woman you love for not being your idea of perfect wife material... I can't gel with that at all. Still, I've done my best to suck it up and get over it, and just know that I can be thankful that I'm not married to someone who has rules for me.

If it's one thing I've learned about God, it's that He doesn't consider His Rules to be more important to Him than I am, or than being willing to Live for me, Die for me, and Spiritually Marry me on that Cross. The way I see it, though I can now Forgive anyone for apparently anything, I do know that I'd be much happier with a man who doesn't put his own rules above his own heart for me. Yet I'm starting to believe that such a man just isn't out there, because "much happier with" winds up becoming a whole set of rules, and then bingo, there you have it...

And what's sad is that I used to do this to every man in my life, I just kept the whole "you don't line up with my rules" thing to myself. But I did used to do that. I had no idea that I was missing out on great opportunities for happiness with "less than perfect" men. I drempt of "Mr. Noble" or "Mr. Gentileman" or "Mr. Good/Quiet Boy." But I also wanted "Mr. Crazy/Wild-man" and "Mr. Nature Boy" and a lot of other things too. And of course, he had to already believe in God, have a relationship with God, be an Adventist, etc. etc. etc. by the time I met him. He had to, had to, had to... The "honey do, honey be list" was rather long. Oh lands, I think I had something close to 200 requirements. Only God Himself could have filled that role -- and does.

It never occurred to me to ask myself, "If I fell truly in love with a man who didn't keep all my rules for him, would I still want to marry him?" Funny, God didn't keep most of my "rules" for who I thought He was supposed to be either! Yet He and I still "Wedded" at my Baptism. Seems to me that our "rules" were meant to be broken, or at least bent somewhat, when they're so controlling, so fear-driven, that they only cause hurt and trouble for us, rather than letting us let the Love in (and out...)

Sweetie... You're wrong. It IS about being painfree. It's just...

Let me try explaining it this way.

There are two kinds of healing. There is the miraculous "Thou art HEALED" when you're healed totally and completely all at once with no lingering pains...

Then there is th healing, much like physical healing that we are more familiary with, that He brings us to, with bandages, lessons learned, and the trials that go with being refined in His fire.

When we submit to His will in that healing time, He brings to us experiences that plumb the depths of those emotional wounds cleaning out the pus, gunk, and nasty stuff inside our feelsings, trimming away scar tissue, debriding the dead tissue from emotional burns, etc. It hurts before it gets better.

But as we walk out that path, relying and trusting in Him to do only what makes us well, we learn those lessons of perfect love casting out fear, we learn to rely totally on Him for all our emotional needs, and we do heal. We do become pain-free, we do become more reliant on Him. And lessons we learn through pain and suffering are lessons never forgotten.

Pain-free will come.

Clio

Wow. Clio - this is exactly what's begun happening to me this evening. God brought me some Understanding as to why the affects of my abused past were used against me by men I loved; why my fears barred me from marrying them. I mean, in a nutshell, that's the affect that my family life has had on my personal life, which was what was driving me crazy the other night, right before all hell broke loose.

Essentially, those men, loving as they were in other ways, wouldn't have been good for me, nor I for them, even though we each can be good for other people. It's been hard knowing that my own "heart issues" are what have kept me from them.

Yet there is One who Loves me enough to be my Servant-Leader (Jesus, the way He was when He washed the feet of the Disciples, which taught them both Trust and Forgiveness, and ultimately, Love), no matter what I'm like. There may be a man who'll come along at some point in time who'll love me the way Jesus does, most of my current/local friends believe there is someone for me... But I have to be honest: I'm not in any mood to look or be in a romantic relationship. I need time to continue healing. I really have been though some traumatic ordeals. I also need time to pick up more of the pieces of my life and hopefully, do something cool with it.

I'm still going to counseling with my mom soon. It's crucial. I can forgive her and be nice to her, but I can't trust her, yet she wants me to and genuinely believes that she wants my best good... *Groans* Perfectionism was never my thing.

Thank you so much for praying for me! Prayers do get Answered, Positively, by our Loving Abba - I only ask now that those prayers continue.

Child of God for ever,

This is great! I wanted to say something like this last night but I wanted to be careful not to hurt you in the state you were in. What I was going to say is: that it appears that the wrong kinds of men are attracted to you. That is why there is no oneness. You know what you want and they look like it but it does not work out.

You have said it well, "I need time to continue healing." Here are two simple sayings that have are loaded with significance. Again please don't think I am saying it's all your fault. Here they are: You attract that which you are. When we do this and are hurting, we attract the same kind of person or one that will try to fix us. It usually doesn't workout. Then the second saying plays with our emotions: Rejection or perceived rejection is the strongest fuel that attracts us to the type that has rejected us. This can happen even if we have rejected them or left the relationship because the failure usually seems to be our faults in some way, in our minds.


Sincerely,

Norman

Thank you. I've pretty much already learned these things, but it was good to hear from another person's perspective, particularly a male perspective (though I'm sure the women here could jump all over this in agreement). I somewhat knew all this from the outset, years and years ago, but didn't understand for a long time that once you fall into that trap (because you just have no idea that you're worth anything, or what you're worth in the first place - because you've been rejected by your own family for your whole life...), you just about never really get out: unless God just finds some way to orchestrate things in such a way that you wind up finding out what you're really worth to Him as your own self (and not just as a part of the corporate Body of Believers). There's a lot of extranious psychology that goes into all of this, that I've wound up learning too - at least intellectually, and a bit in my heart as well.

Anyway, I just wanted to update everyone here:

Things are going a little more smoothly here at home. Mom and I made home-made ice-cream tonight (soy based, no milk, I'm allergic to it), and things were tense and weird. But we got through it. Well, technically, we made the "sauce" for it, but it's a cooked-pudding type of thing, so it's cooling in the fridge overnight before we stick it in the maker. So, tomorrow should be a new adventure. Anyway, so, in the midst of that, I got an email back from my counselor: mom and I have an appointment for next Tuesday at 3. I'll see the counselor first, then my mom will see her, then we'll see her together, and it should all take about an hour and a half (haha, probably 3, but anyway).

I've been trying to "sleep" but, well, though I'm in a better mood, sleep won't come. Probably because I've been awake the last few nights. So, I'm working on that. I'm also really exited because it's finally occurred to me that this whole "no rules" business means that, within reason, I'm free to go out and explore and enjoy the world, noting what I learn and my reactions to everything, and just really having a good time. It's been a long time since I did anything like that.

So, that's tonight's update.

Again, thank you so much, everyone, for being here with and for me, praying with and about me And for doing so in complete Trust. It's all been very, very needed, and continues to be.

Awwe Thank you! You just really brightened my day It especially helps to know that I'm able to make a difference just by being myself. Honestly, that might be the most important thing I ever do in this life...

You're very sweet for posting this and your other encouraging posts! And I really like that avatar of yours! It always makes me laugh

I hope to get to know you better

I came from a back-slidden Seventh-day Adventist home where both parents were alcoholics and all of us children were abused physically, spiritually and sexually. I had been to see a half dozen counselors by the time I was 18. I cannot stress enough the importance of choosing a Christian counselor. He or she doesn't have to be an Adventist. There are non-Christians that do a good job and there are Christian counselors that do a poor job. However the odds are against those that choose to go with secular counselors and the odds are favorable for those that choose a Christian counselor.

I had both and it was a Christian counselor that led me to the cross to heal my brokenness. When I realized my parents had abused me because they themselves were victims and their abuse of me was only a continuation of their own victimization, I was not only able to forgive them but have compassion on them.

Healthy people do not abuse other people. Since we are all sinners, we all are unhealthy to some degree and abuse others to some degree. That is why I stay away from the term "emotional abuse". When I am having a bad day, I have emotionally abused cashiers at the grocery store. If we are all honest, I think each of us have been guilty of emotionally abusing others. Yet when we get into spiritual, physical and sexual abuse we really find it is unhealthy people that abuse others. In fact, victims of abuse quite often repeat the same or similar behavior. Once I started getting help, I realized there was a list of people I had to make amends to.

It is a long journey. A couple of my sisters chose secular counselors that really messed them up bad. One of them, finally quit going to her counselor after eight years and later realized how much he had messed up her thinking. The other sister still goes to a secular counselor and she has cut off ties with our mother and all except two siblings (there are 12 of us).

By the grace of God I am being the father and husband to my wife and kids that I believe God wants me to be. I expect the end of the abuse cycle is going to end with me. My children see their father's smile, feel his tender hugs, know his approval and see him cherish their mother as his queen. That is the result of Christian counseling with a willing and humble patient. I pray your experience will be as fruitful.

I've avoided mentioning which kind of counselor I'm going to because I don't agree with the idea that Christian counselors are always better. Psychology is what it is, and secular psychology has, in large, come to a place where it is reasonable for the needs in my family's situation. In fact, when left in the wrong "Christian" or "Adventist" hands, psychology can be a very dangerous thing (if they don't rightly understand the Gospel, and think that it's all works-based or shame-based). Sometimes "because Jesus said to be nice" isn't the reason for why parents should stop abusing their kids, whereas "because you don't want your kids to get abused" is. It doesn't take a Christian therapist to help parents figure that one out - it's not rocket-science: it's reality.

All that said, first of all, the counselor we're going to is an Adventist counselor who I've been to before, I like, and I think has a fairly good understanding of both the Gospel and of just flat out normal (or abnormal) human psychology in any context (be it Christian, Buddhist...) I really appreciate the good advice she's given me in the past, regarding ways to deal with my parents. Unfortunately, applying that advice is difficult because most of it was given at a time when I wasn't living with them, and I now am.

That change in dynamics almost throws all her former advice out the window (almost, but not completely), and it's pretty much time to work through the real issues between me and my mom rather than simply "Let it go, forget about it, find something you enjoy in life, try to make money at it, and be glad you don't live with her all the time anymore." I now live with her, and it's time to do the real work in this family.

I know it's a temptation for some of you to say "Just move out and forget about them." First of all, I still don't have the money to do that, which my parents both are using as leverage here, as they continually threaten to kick me out when I don't perform up to their lofty standards/demands. Secondly, this family situation has just gone so completely out of whack that it honestly hurts me to think of just allowing it to remain this way.

There comes a point in human existence where you simply call in the fire-department rather than allow your own house to continue burning down - just grabbing your boots on the way out into the snow-storm and never looking back isn't enough. It might seem pointless, but really, I don't think it is. If nothing else, I'm hoping this little "exercise in futility" will at least teach my mom that it's ok even for her, as well as everyone else, to not be perfect all the time, and also to be able to take "no" for an answer, and not assume bad things about others.

I don't intend to live here forever. I've wanted to be gone for a long time. If I had the money, I would not be living here. It's been suggested that I want some knight in shining armor to save me, and I've addressed that here and privately as well, but I want to reiterate that here: first of all, my having ever wanted marriage was not wrong - it was a good, healthy, and normal thing that shouldn't have been abused the way it was. Secondly, I've never wanted my need for independence to be a reason for becoming dependent on someone else! I've, in the past, simply wanted to honestly be in love with a man who was in love with me, for real, etc. And I don't think that was wrong.

What was wrong was my allowing myself to be treated like I wasn't the most special, wonderful, and beautiful woman in the world - or getting angry and hurt by it when I wasn't being treated that way (because of the void my parents created in me). Meaning that I hadn't yet learned that I already am these things whether I'm dating or not, and it's simply when men in my life don't treat me that way that it's time to say "I only want friendship, at arm's length, thanks."

Instead, I used to try to fix things, because the "void" made me uncomfortable and I attached all my value to whether they were treating me right or not. It hadn't yet occurred to me that some men are just honestly blind to seeing good things in others. And those men just took advantage of this blind spot. It's not that I attract the wrong men. It's more like 90% of the men in my age category or younger are so blessedly unhealthy to begin with: it's like playing Russian Roulette with only one bullet-hole empty. All of us women, healthy or not, face this "game" when we enter the dating scene, and need to see it for what it is, realize that many men out there are unhealthier than we are to begin with (many do have undiagnosed or unrecognizable mental health issues and are freely roaming the world, even in business suites and even as workers in the church), and that we can't blame ourselves for "attracting the wrong men." We are only responsible for learning the key signs of unhealthy men and learning that while arm's length friendship is actually the safest (because avoiding them completely draws them to us in unwanted ways), but dating them is just a no-no.

Yes, the wrong men easily target abuse victims, and yes, healthier men tend to avoid women who've been abused because they don't have the plums to deal with us and really love us, but neither of those is the abused woman's fault. Yes, I have the "responsibility" to deal with my own psychological stuff for myself, for my own good. But I will say here that I'm tired the idea that it's somehow my fault that I've been treated this way. It's really not. I never held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to treat me like that.

One thing I've learned is to stay away from dating men who whine, complain, and judge others. Another is to avoid men who treat others in their lives better than they treat me, or who otherwise don't spend an appropriate amount of quality time with me to begin with. Men who make the conversation all about them and their point of view, and don't care to hear out or validate mine, are another kind to avoid. And, men who don't take the time to form a real friendship with me first, for at least a month or two (I'd prefer longer though, as I've seen for myself that it can take that long before I can see if I really want to date a man or not), on a non-romantic level (even if they are interested in me) that doesn't demand my romantic attention "because now we're in a relationship - that's what you signed up for here", are yet another to stay away from.

None of this was taught to me in our schools in elementary, junior high, or academy, much less in church or Sabbath Schools. I wish it had been.

This might be ..... but gonna say it anyway..



Likewise, men don't want to date women who whine, complain, and judge others.