I love getting out on this limb with you! Such a GOOD question!

I have asked a similar one regarding my sin versus the sins of others against me!!!! and found some rather interesting answers....but that is material for another thread!!!

From where I stand with my feet stuck here on the earth looking up into the dark night sky it would be really easy for me to raise my fist and shake it toward heaven as I ask your question!

But then I would have to sit down and listen! Well, I guess I wouldn't HAVE to! but there is something about shaking ones fist at God that makes me feel the need to!!!

Maybe I will go do that tonight and get back with you!!!

Oops....I had to let go the branch!!!

The position in which I view this question must first be part of the anser. For to live here on earth in this human body is to be in an entirely different position than if I could see God face to face and know the reality of His kingdom. But for now that is my reality! And it is there I have to start.

I have noticed that my life is more like Alice in the looking Glass! So much of my perception is backwards, a mirror image of what is God's reality. At least it sure seems that way when I read much of scripture! This question makes me feel that over again. Human Words are SO inadequate to describe something as huge as GOD. I refuse to put him in MY or anyone elses box!!!

 Quote:

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 1 Cor 13:12

SOooooo.....Starting from where I sit I have to factor in the backward and often upside state of my world and thus my perspective and how that could change anything and everything.

But....God knows we are dealing with the mirror thing and the dark glass thing. Sometimes I think He says what He does and makes it look like He is doing the things that are being done just because of that knowledge. Therefore there IS an answer to it that we can also understand!!!! But often it takes changing the way we look at it!

The fact that a battle is raging is obvious!!! The fact that there WILL be casualties is also a no brainer!!! It is important to know who is on whose side and what it is they stand for. (something that is NOT always obvious or easy to figure out!)

I love reading David's cries to God in Psalms! David was a master at the fist shaking thing!!! But he also knew that he HAS to sit and listen afterward. So as I was listening to David's words last night as recorded in my Listeners Bible I fell asleep with the words below ringing in my ears! And it has started to let me see the edges of the mirror I am stuck in. I know now that there IS something more that I am NOT understanding. It is only a start but then we have to start somewhere!

The pronoun "he" gets a little mixed up in the 7th Chapter of Psalms but I am pretty sure David is talking about the wicked when he says:

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14 Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. 15 He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. 16 His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate.

As an entity that can read hearts and minds only God has the information that would allow the judgement right! I have no doubt that God is capable of destruction in any form chosen but I started to wonder as I listened to this Psalm if God doesn't most often just let the wicked hang themselves! Not that the wicked are going to recognize it as the natural cause of their own actions.

My next thought was "Now that certainly requires a lot of self condemnation to get to the truth!" Not a nice position to be in! Maybe God simply decides to go ahead and take the blame for the stupidity so that perhaps the condemnation isn't so greatly felt. Of course this opens God up to Anger!!! Don't know which one is worse but I do know that God KNOWS that intense feelings will arise when dealing with this stuff! But I figure God can take that! At least we are feeling!

In the end...those who fight against God will eventually sit down and listen!

Or...they will destroy themselves fighting against this powerful force.

Would it really be to our benefit if God Could change the fact of all the powerful realities of His character. Is His mercy enough to keep us safe?

Does God need forgiveness for that Character? If so what greater power is there that could give it? And what happens to us less powerful beings when we throw ourselves onto God's mercy? Unfortunately even that question relies on the eternal understanding! And the war we are living is all we know.

Somewhere between our Alice in the Looking Glass World and the Eternal life we have been promised we get a glimpse of it all through God's eyes. Only then do we gain the needed perspective. Only then does it start to make a shred of sense!

Wow! Life, do you not know that Chris is an Christian Adventist? Do you not understand where she is coming from in her questions?

Sometimes, our lives are pruned in such a way where we will question everything....our faith, our loves, our lives...it is literally feeling like you are going out on a limb and are about to jump....blindfolded....

And blind faith, Life, is not a growing faith...A growing faith is one where you learn trust...and you have to learn to trust again....especially when it feels that all you have had previously, was a sham, a faux, and not necessiarily true...but not all was false either...And you have to know the difference...

Chris, am I close here? Is this where you are coming from?

If it is, then I would say this much....learn to trust again...Sometimes, God prunes grape vines in such a way that they will produce MORE fruit...

Of course, Chris, if I am way off base here...ignore this post...

Neil, that's exactly where I was coming from...
Thanks... I sometimes think nobody "gets" what I'm trying to say...
And I think to myself, "why bother to say anything?" But then, someone (or someONES) comes along and, VOILA, Hey! Someone understands!!

C/A has such a great team and membership.

Charis,

I'm getting you loud and clear! I have the very same questions myself!

Carrie

[Taking low bow] I understand...as long as someone writes carefully, and clearly, a good reader can get the gist...Your writing was clear, and carefully thought out....I caught your drift...Just listen to what I said, though....Pruning is a rough on the person, but the benefits are wonderful....

Those are great questions that can never be answered in full by mere mortals. If we could answer them, then probably we would be God, and we certainly are not that! But just a few thoughts come to mind:

1) The Flood happened because people had turned so incredibly evil that the only way to SAVE humanity was to start over. God's mercy gave them 120 years to think about it, and anyone could have gotten on the ark, whether they were unquestioningly obedient or not.

2) The stories of Abraham and Job were about much more than proving loyalty. That was part of it, but there were other issues involved. In Abraham's case, it was a "type" or example of God giving His own Son, so that we would have some inkling of what that was like. Job's story, in my mind, basically is not much different than our entire planet being on display for the universe to see the contrast between God's style of leadership and Satan's style of leadership. God doesn't have to prove anything to anyone, but He does it so that we will obey Him out of love instead of fear. God's actions are to teach us and help us, while Satan just wants to kill us. God asked other prophets to do some strange things, like Hosea, for instance, that were meant as object lessons. I don't understand totally why God does that, but it does seem that the people He chooses to use in that way have a long experience of trusting Him and He knows they are up to the task.

3) God does not and cannot sin. He always does what is best, whether we understand it or not. There are some things that are for God to decide and act on, NOT us ("vengence is mine" for instance), and our little box of understanding may not be able to grasp it, but that in no way means that God sins when He does those things. The reason you or I are not God is because we are VERY capable of doing far worse than anything God has done, and if we were in His shoes, we would absolutely be doing that. I learned a while back not to compare my sins to those of others. Many studies have shown that any of us is capable of the most heinous crimes, given the right circumstances. It is only by the grace of God that we are "good" in any way. We are all sinners to the core, totally selfish by nature. If I look at God instead of other humans, it doesn't take long to see that the measure between God and me is impossibly infinite, while the measure between me and the most evil maniac is a tiny blip.

4) As far as God's personality reflecting our own, I think it is not so much that we are projecting our own personality onto God, which may be true to an extent, but I think moreso we tend to think of God in terms of human authority figures we have had in our lives, such as parents, teachers, pastors, etc. When those authority figures fail miserably at representing God's character to us, it's a difficult, lifetime struggle to see God in a different way. When I can remember that people are basically products of their upbringing, it helps me feel more compassion for their erroneous views and irritating ways. Anyway, I'm sure I have a few of my own, as well.

Btw, I love it that people feel this is a safe place to ask such frank questions.

"Why must I be forgiven for my sins by You, who has committed sins far greater than those of which I am capable?" originally posted by Charis

As I have said before, "God CANNOT commit Sin.....
" Sin is not a 'THING" Sin is an attitude which promotes ME instead of GOD....Anything that gets between ME and GOD is SIN.........God cannot get between himself. Sin is "MYSELFISHNESS"........... God set up the parameters for my relationship to Him and consequently the Universe. I don't have to like it or even understand it...that's the way that it is. All God is asking for is our Trust in Him that His way is superior to ours. He gives us Free Will...(which he does not give to any other creature on this earth)....Then He asks us to surrender that Free Will to Him and let Him do the leading.
Do we trust Him enough to guide us in our journey? Do we trust Him enough when He tells us to 'turn left' to do it when we 'know full well' (?) that 'right' is the 'only ' way to go.?

I'm not sure if this is personality or culture, or even past relationships with the paternal figure.

There are folks that say that God is a loving Father giving gifts to those that request certain things. Well, what if that person grew up with a tragic and poor excuse for a father?

My father was kind and loving and so when I think of God, it is easy for me to see that my heavenly Father is all loving and gracious.
On the other hand, if someone would say that the Holy Spirit was like my mother, a Comfort, it would be a most difficult thing for me to believe that I would even want this part of the Diety in my life because my mother was extremely difficult to live with, putting me down every time I turned around.

Read and talk with Them and you will understand. By beholding, we become changed.