If you do really want to look into this stuff. I would suggest a more recent book with up to date research into this topic ....

MORE THAN A PROPHET ... by Graeme Bradford


Order Information

More Than A Prophet may be ordered direct from the publisher,
Biblical Perspectives which is the work of Samuele Bacchiocchi who is one of the church's scholars. He only accepts the best research. I went to a Sabbath School class at Andrews with him. He is very knowledgable.

Another good one is ...


From Sinai to Golgotha"

By Alden Thompson OR ... Any of Alden's books on Ellen White

Alden again ... is one of the best scholars in the church and he has studied Ellen White a great deal. I was impressed with what a sincere and humble man he was when he stayed at our house while doing a seminar. A real man of God.

Welcome truthseeker007.

Your enthusiasm in seeking and learning the Truth indicates God has already intervened in your life, for our fallen natures do not respond to God's call.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14 KJV

B;lessings in your continuing journey of faith.

If you study thoroughly the lives of some of the Holy Bibles most illustrious individuals, you would find them revealing faults far greater in magnitude than Ellen White has ever been accused of. How then can we find confidence for trust that we should accept them as spokesmen for God?

"If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority." John 7:17 NKJV

In drawing my own conclusions about the veracity of her writings, if I had nothing else to base my conclusion on I would feel ashamed to bring her life in disrepute by my comments, at least until I had a string of hospitals and schools that circle the globe which could be ascribed to the wisdom of my counsels, as she has.
However I do believe one reason God uses people, despite our obvious flaws, is so that we will keep our eyes on Jesus and not let the messengers detract from His light and beauty, as a result of our own darkness.

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty..." 1 Corinthians 1:27 KJV

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 NKJV

Thanks again for the responses. We are actually talking about an angel that is setting a date for the return of Jesus. I believe that the book in Revelation ,which tastes sweet and became bitter, was the great disapointment. In the time of Ellen White people really believed Jesus was coming soon, but first the message has to be delivered to every tongue, nation and tribe. Now i know that God cannot lie and i don t think angels lie either and this is where it gets complicated. Maybe God permitted a demon to show Ellen White that she would be alive at the coming of Jesus. This would be a win-win situation because the prophecy of the book that tastes sweet but became bitter had to be fullfilled and satan could use this action to demonstrate to the world that Ellen White was a false prophetess.

I am sorry that i am a perfectionist. But i think this is of the utmost importance, because seventh day adventism is a movement that relies on evidence instead of irrational traditions and emotions. If i am able to have the answers on everything i want to know and i have no inconsistencies left, then the bringing of the 3 angels messages is a piece of cake. Then I don t have to look up to individuals who are highly honoured in this world and have most of the master degrees. I am glad that there are so many scientists who are seventh day adventists (Walter Veith etc) but there are far too less people who just go talk to the pentecostal leaders, catholics etc and show them evidence that they are in error. Of course I understand that we should use the atmosphere of peace and friendly relations in the Christian community rather as a means of convincing spiritual leaders of Babylon that they live in error than creating hostility and full opposition. I believe that seventh day adventism is at a very fragile point in history. Some of the people want to play church and become a friend of this world, others just have isolated themselves from criticism so that when the church comes under attack they will not hold on to their beliefs and others are thinking that they have to do nothing and they are waiting for the holy spirit or some divine intervention forgetting the fact that as Jesus suffered we should suffer too in this world because a student is subject to his master. Anyway, it is easy to point at others' mistakes but that s not what i am trying to do here. All i am saying is that, unless we collect evidence and present it in a logical manner to the world, we unitedly and individually carry our cross, seventh day adventism is nothing more than a 'strange' church. Therefore I think it is relevant to explain the big inconsistencies, otherwise the work cannot be done. Thank God, He is raising scientists opposing the evolution theory, because without it this church just does not have any chance to succeed.

Thanks again for helpin me out,
I have been discussing things with myself for so long now, that i need new and better insights from people who know more about this church than me

Yes, there is confusion even in this forum. So the best thing to do is to search the Bible for the truth yourself. As for EGW, study her writings and compare it with Scripture and the Holy Spirit will let you know whether she is a false or true prophet.

Gerry

What you are looking for is 1] SECRET knowledge, or at least solid evidence that has been hidden and 2] facts, not faith.

Been there...done that...doesnt exist.



You want confidence...when you witness. you want to be able to show others that you are right and that they should evaluate the evidence/truth and should convert...Sorry, but your premise is all wrong. It is NOT evidence that converts people.It is the Holy Spirit that converts people.And the Holy Spirit works by the Word...Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. IOWS, show your faith from the bible....and not the adventist presentation of your faith...




There is something wrong here as well. I don't believe that the SDA church is as you describe. Granted, there are a few, but there is far more just trying to survive, get thier children thru church school/college...They have been under an economic burden for many a year and they stuggle with that by being worthy of thier labor...and having two jobs or three per family. And with attempting to get the children interest in helping the world, it is very hard when the parents have to compete with the various opertunities available to their children...And the older generations, when they have a respite from all those years of labor, TAKE IT...they are tired.




Evolution overpowering the church??? Well, that is interesting...the church has been dealing with that sort of evidence for many a year...say like oh, several hundred years in one form or another...Actually, what really works in presenting the Gospel is presenting it in relationships...connecting with God and with your fellow man...rather revealing and it works better than facts and figures...Of course, that is my opinion...just like you are not gonna do this because it is too scary, but again, it's an opinion....



I suggest a small group study...with a different church entirely and present your evidence of your faith....it will do much to help yourself...

"As for EGW, study her writings and compare it with Scripture and the Holy Spirit will let you know whether she is a false or true prophet."

Thanks for the advice, but how will the Holy Spirit let me know??? I cannot rely on feelings. Feelings brought me into the New Age movement. Please tell me how?

I think the reason many have issues with the SOP is because of some statements or predictions that were made that turned out to be false (ie the shut door, or the world will not see the year 2000). Some of these things the SDA leaders refuse to address. They want to sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away. It won't. I have no problem with most of what I've read from EGW (I haven't read a whole lot, but a few things). If I come across something that I believe to be erroneous or presumptuous, then I ignore it. I have the same attitude when I read something presumptuous in the bible. For example, Paul clearly thought that the Lord was coming in his day. Some people try to clear it up by saying that he was writing for the generation that would be alive when Christ comes. I don't believe that. If that were true he would have said so. He really did think that some of the followers of his time would be translated. Now does that mean I will discard anything Paul has to say? No. I believe that he was inspired, however he was not all knowing and infallible. There is no one that is all knowing and infallible except God. He has chosen what he would and wouldn't reveal to us in his word and through his prophets. Another thing to think about; does the bible indicate that God's prophets are infallible? Can a prophet say something that isn't true? Or mix truth with presumption and error? I gotta do some reading on this.

I don't know if Neil has changed or it I have. Even though Neil and I don't always agree ... I do like what he is saying. (Except for the last statement which I may be misunderstanding.)

I do tend to disagree with the approach or need of truthseeker to have all the ducks in a row before witnessing. The Gospel is simple. Just go out and preach it. The distinctive doctrines of the SDA church are fine and good but that is not what you need to witness about. Preach JESUS.

Now ... to the last suggestion of Neils ...



I would hope you don't see the need to present "evidence". Just preach JESUS. The rest will come. But don't feed a baby meat. Give them milk first. Perhaps I have misunderstood Neil's comment and he meant to witness of Jesus rather than 'evidence' of church doctrine. I can hope.

And keep in mind that our mission is not to convert Christians .... it is to convert those who DON'T know God.