Ellen White testifies that God in vision told her the exact day and hour of the Lord's second coming. It was not from a "demon". That WOULD make Ellen White a false prophet.

You're making good points. Of course Paul thought Christ was coming in his day. He had no idea the Second Coming would not occur for over 2000 years. He could not have understood or comprehended how that could be true. Imagine if an angel told you there would be six thousand more years before Christ returns. You would probably think it can't be an angel of God.

Ellen White said that the angels of God always presented the Second Coming of Christ as being very near. There are good explanations for this. For one thing, each of us may only live a short time, and for those that do die soon, it is as if Christ's return was very soon because the next thing we're aware of is either judgment or seeing Christ. For another, if we were told Christ would not return for hundreds or thousands of years, we would tend to put off getting ready for it.

It's important to remember, however, that the Bible does contain a number of indications that there would be a "delay" of Christ's return. (See, for instance, Matt. 24: 48; 2 Peter 3: 4.) But Paul and others of that time clearly did not understand the implications of these texts and others like them.

Paul was not wrong to write that he thought he would be among those alive at the time of Christ's return. He was writing from his personal viewpoint, and God did not prevent prophets from writing their own viewpoints. It's like the Psalmist writing about the joy of smashing the heads of babies against the wall. Those are human viewpoints, certainly not God's. God loves those babies, even if they are Babylonian babies. But at that time you couldn't expect an Israelite to see it that way.

All this just goes to show that when people "attack" Ellen White as being fallible, the same argument can be made about the prophets and apostles.

When it comes to the Shut Door, Ellen White never claimed that God showed her that the idea of the Shut Door as initially held by many Millerites was correct. On the contrary, it was dreams and visions that caused her to change her view of the Shut Door. She saw that she could not have been right about that. Please see Early Writings 42-45, 250, 251; and 1 Selected Messages 62-64, 74.

She wrote: "For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever close to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled me to see the true position.

"I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

".... I was shown in vision, and still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

"Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection..." (1 SM 63).

Ellen White never did say or write that the world would never see the year 2000.

Regards,
"John 3: 17"

I agree with your last statement that if it was a demon, Ellen White would be a false prophet.

Do you have a reference for Ellen White's testimony that "God in vision told her the exact day and hour of the Lord's second coming"? Is it GC 640?

Dear One in regards to your statement about the Holy Spirit and your "feelings" having led you astray-- The specific counsel given by Jesus in regards to the Holy Spirit and His leading-- study the Gospel of John for ex.John 15:13 ...when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. v14- He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and show it unto you. (My advice: Study the Words of Jesus- God in the flesh as He lived among us.) And pray, He will not forsake you, or leave you.

I would go even further and just claim the promise for this. HE has promised to never leave nor forsake ... so you really don't need to pray for it. Just claim it.

Annie ... I am not saying that you meant he should pray for this. IT is not clear. But I did want to clarify that it IS promised.

John317 says ...



Ellen White feels differently from that opinion.

I've never been able to understand this philosophy. I've heard of it before. But, can you tell me ... what it is that you would be "putting off"?

For one thing ... we could die at any time. Our time on this earth would end. We need to be right with Christ NOW. It does not matter WHEN Christ comes. We need to know Him NOW.

And ... can you tell me what it is that one would need to "DO" before the Lord comes ... other than love, know, and accept Him. How does the date or time of His coming affect this? IF you believe in Christ ... why would you say .. "Oh he is not coming for years ... so I think I will stop believing in Him until the time is closer" ?

This whole idea seems so unrealistic. It is stupid to put it in simple terms. I just can't see ANY Christian believer thinking this. It makes NO sense. Am I just too sheltered ?? OR what?

I do hope you can explain it to me because I keep hearing this statement and it causes me to shake my head.

My concern is that if this guy presents ADVENTIST bible truth in a non-adventist bible study, [of which, for his edification he needs to do so, he should come away with a couple of clear understandings....1] not all Christians are Adventist [for some, this is a "duh" statement, but for others this may be a revelation in itself] 2] even non-adventist Christians still will follow the bible 3] non-adventist Christians are [hopefully] more interested in relationship principles than doctrinal issues and yet, they can still be Christian...and on thier way to the promised land.

It would be an exercise in maturing for Christ....and learning to be tolerant of other's beliefs...

And as for the Spiritual Milk/meat diet, Red, don't you worry your pretty little head about that...Many Adventist need to eat more meat rather than have a spiritual milk diet...which I am SURE will fly into the face of our health message in some way...

Me too...I have wondered this for many a year...but never had it verbalized before...

Ok, maybe since there is so much talk about that, and since Christ hasn't come, maybe I should start talking this way? My Lord delayeth His coming, so I will go out and eat drink and be merry.....

[/tic] [Red, pls note. I spelled it correctly this time!]

I don't know about all this agreement between us Neil. What is happening?

And I do apologize for the "meat" analogy. I should have said "vege meat". I forgot the audience for whom I was speaking. I don't want to offend the sensitivities of vegetarians.