I was actually wondering what you think of the fact that somebody in the Old Testament who gathered sticks on the Sabbath day had to be stoned. I am not a machine so my opinion will be a fair one: I think he should get another chance of rehabilitation or in the worst case been removed from Israel but certainly not killed. I can t help wondering sometimes whether God is truly righteous in general or only righteous for the ones that he chooses in order to glorify himself. After all, we were created for his glory, says the bible. I hope God isn t angry with me because of my thoughts. I cannot help it, otherwise he should make machines and not humans with a capacity to choose. Hope u guys can give me a little help on this matter.

Truth ... you always have such good questions.

I think God knows our heart. And I trust His judgment.

It is not the act of breaking the Sabbath that is the issue here ... or we would all die.

This was an example. And that is all. We do not know what was in the heart of this person. But I suspect it was rebellion and SELF ... a rejection of God. That is what God is opposed to.

I trust my God though and do not spend much time thinking about this example.

This was a law but if you read you will not find that much of that took place. A lot of the laws given to the Children of Israel (CoI) when God had just called them to be His people. God had a plan and they agreed and said all that you say we will do. He delivered them and they entered into a covenant with Him.

When the new covanent was initiated two people dropped dead for a simple lie. The point is this, at the begining of something that God does He makes all aware that He is serious and will not play around. Not that He's waiting to come down on us but He must do as He said. The reason He made such laws is so He could have a distinct people to reveal to the world what He was like and to introduce the Savior of the world, to the world.

Also, if I tell someone not to go into a certain part of town or they will get shot and they go anyway, who's fault is that if they get shot? Not mine, but theirs. Like wise if God says don't do that or you'll die and you do it, who's fault is it if you die? Not God's but yours.

God told Adam and Eve not to eat of a certain tree or they'd die and they ate anyway and they did die spiritually and eventually physically. But praise God that He promised a way for them to be redeemed.

In the OT for some people certain offences were not forgiven. It doesn't seem to be a matter of who it is but what time these offences take place. Usually at the beginning of a ministry (bears killed children who mocked Elisha) or when God starts a movement. I am sure there are other times that God permits Satan to destroy some who have rejected Him to the point where they have damaged their ability to respond to Him and have become extremely vile. There are somethings I know nothing about, but I don't know that I can trust God because He died for me so that I can and whosoever will, be with Him for all eternity.

Ok thank you guys for the answers. Sorry for such questions but i still believe these are relevant questions that need an answer when you want to spread the gospel and you have to face the criticism of the atheists. I geuss i watched too much "God Delusion" from Dawkins on youtube. He calls God terrible things and refers to orders of God to kill even women and children. However if the context justifies the means, i geuss that it s God s policy that it is better that a few should die, than that all should perish or die. I think this is strange because I ve always thought that someway God would think of every individual at the same time. I geuss that I think too much in black and white. Anyway thanks for the answers.

Uh...why are you watching those video clips of "God Delusion" on You Tube? I'm not condemning you - Just curious.....the questions you are asking are the mantras of pagans and atheist alike when it comes to talking about the Christian God. They like to corner Christians and ask questions for which there are no answers, such as the classic: "If God can do anything (omnipotence), can He make a stone He cannot lift?"

Oh, and atheists shouldn't even be concerned about what God did or did not do in the OT or NT, since they - the atheists - don't believe God exists anyway. Kind of a moot topic, imho.

Don't let fear of an angry God smother your mind. God is love. IMHO the example of the sticks just goes to prove that God did not write nor inspire that rule. Moses, if you ask me is more likely to have been a witch than a 'man of God.' Stick with the New Testament, (but throw out 'Revelations.' ) You'll be closer to God going that route.

"why are you watching those video clips of "God Delusion" on You Tube?"

I don t want to be a cognitive dissonance reduction believer. That means that i am open to all sorts of points of view. I had to see what Dawkins said because of his fame. He is one of the most powerfull evolutionists/atheists in the field of science. He has lots of good points but unfortunately comes to the wrong conclusion. He equals Christianity with the Catholic churches and fallen protestant churches. I don t understand why people think he is so great because he lacks evidence and logical reason from an adventist point of view. But you guys are right that I should focus more on the Gospel and people like Walter Veith, Shawn Boonstra, Doug Batchelor etc..

There are many things I don't understand about God or His plans, but I know enough about Him now that I can trust Him enough to wait for the answers when I see Him. So the bottom line is: do I take Him at His word or not that:

"He is the Rock, His work is perfect;
For all His ways are justice,
A God of truth and without injustice;
Righteous and upright is He"? DT 32:4

Even when I don't know all the answers?

Gerry

Christopher Hitchens has done a good job of laying down some questions that need to be addressed in regards to religion.

Sam Harris does not deny spiritual experience and is not as strident publicly, but has some powerful things to say from a slightly different approach.

You can see a summary of his presentations here

Sam Harris Video

I would invite you to consider his views as well.

I'm curious.

If there are high profile authors of atheism and many people claiming they are atheists; does that make atheism a religion?

"A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction." Wikipedia

There is only one "rule," and that is the rule of the definition of "atheism" - not having any belief in any gods. Other than that, atheists are free to do whatever they want and still be called atheists. An atheist can do and believe absolutely anything beyond gods and still fit the definition. Quite the opposite of how "rules" are treated in a religion.

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

What would you call a person who does not believe in the God of conventional religion, does not think the Bible is the 'word' of God, but holds open the possibility that God exists in some manner, perhaps as an indefinable entity as much the creation of the mind as the mind is a creation of it? This is a necessariliy nebulous description ...

welcome to the wonderful world of paganism

haha rudywoofs said nearly exactly what i was thinking. I would call it deception;)

I'm taking this as a serious question. There are a few possible groups that may fit this particular description.

Liberal Protestant - This would be those like Bishop John Shelby Spong

Unitarian Universalist

And simply Theist.

As a side not Bishop Spong sent this out from a Priest who was choosing to leave the Church of England because of conscience.

If we throw out all from the Holy Scripture that we don't think to reveal the God of the Scripture, then we make God in our image instead of letting the Scripture reveal the image of God.
Are we suppose to change the Word of God to fit our narrow conception of His creation, or are we to let it(the Word) change us to the point where the Word reveals His love.

"But He answered and said, "It is written, ' MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'" Matthew 4:4 NASB
Enphasis theirs LHC
Regards!

That's a really interesting point I hadn't thought of before. Thanks.

Say what?!!

My dear carolaa . . . I understand your surprise. We simply recognize that not everyone believes in the inerrancy or Divine inspiration of all Scripture. I do, and I have not the slightest doubt but that God Himself did give the Mosaic law to Moses, for His people. It is called the Mosaic law because Moses wrote it, but he wrote what God gave him in the mount. The fact that we do not understand some features of that law, certainly does not take away from its inspiration or its validity. We simply were not there, and we do not see all that God saw at the time. At the same time, if a person is looking for reasons to doubt or dispute such, God has given lots of freedom and room for one to do so.

Dave

Richard

Would be interested on your thoughts on this..

http://lifedevelopment.ca/

Honest ones, PM me if you want...

I can accept that people don't believe in the inerrancy of all scripture. But to call Moses a witch!? So, why is Moses in heaven now? Moses visited with Jesus at the transfiguration - in the NEW Testament. Is that a serious post? I can't even wrap my head around that one.

Part of the experience of being exposed to different belief systems. It can be quite interesting. In a given day, I may listen empathetically to everyone from an agnostic to an evangelical to an atheist to, in today's case, someone who buys into the 'Ouraneia' stuff. And much more. I have learned to listen with interest, and try to understand where a person is coming from. Although I must confess, this is the first time I have heard it suggested that Moses was a witch. I should like to hold some discourse with my esteemed online friend, D'Allan, in that regard.

Dave

The real question is do we have a reason to believe?

It is a well done site and the questions are certainly worth asking. Discussions on forgiveness, love, peace, and rest are very positive solutions for many of life's pains and can generate very practical solutions.

I think the weakness of the site is the God answer is implied through the fear of death, the fear of no meaning in life, and the idea that only God has the solution to fairness and justice because they are complex.

I think Christians could enter into the larger philosophical dialog if they would come with the idea that the search for truth was the first priority. So often the dialog has behind it the intent to convert all others to a truth that is already assumed. This is quite evident on this site.

We are in a unique situation in the country. Other traditions like Buddhism and Hinduism have become blended with Western sensitivities and have produced new forms of these traditions that have discovered deep insights into life and its meaning unique to these blends. One good example of this is the book called "The Zen Teachings of Jesus" by Christian writer Kenneth Leong. It becomes quite evident that the philosophy of Jesus has deep roots in Eastern philosophy that elude our western assumptions.

I want to make it clear that I am not a Buddhist or a Christian, but I can understand the gifts that each of these traditions have brought to the table. I have learned to enter into the assumptions of different traditions to understand what draws people to these different ways of believing.

What I have learned is that our gods will always be too small. Some people spend their whole life with one version of god and yet, when one begins to explore beyond the boundaries of god, there are some very frightening places. I can understand why looking at life without a god in the universe would seem frightening, if you had nothing to replace that with.

And often those who leave Christianity, after being awakened to the fact that its claims are based in pagan myths and ancient political powers, will lapse into despair and embrace a pragmatic, often angry atheism. This is not unlike the child who is told that Santa Claus is not real and realize all their joy and excitement around him have been based on a lie. This can leave a child with a profound sense of betrayal and distrust of other people.

It is true that one needs to search for meaning as one would search for the pearl of great price. When presented with the option of despair or continuing to search, I believe that continuing the search is a far more interesting option. And it helps if one has a mentor, that has walked through this, that can provide some direction.

What I have discovered is that something is only true for me if it produces results. This is often a long process and I imagine that I will be going through this process the rest of my life. Rather than producing a sense of disappointment, I have come to enjoy the prospect of exploring deeper and deeper mysteries.

I have also discovered that truth often lays in the midst of a paradox and that real answers aren't contained in words, but exist deep within each one of us. This may be what Jesus was referring to when he spoke so much about the Kingdom of God within.

I have learned through a lot of experience that there are vast capabilities deep within each one of us that are often blocked by fears and shame. And unfortunately modern Christianity has a lot of teachings that prevent people from exploring these places. And modern Christianity does not have many mystical practices that allow people to connect with these parts of themselves that will often ignite transformational experiences. And when it does there is a lot of judgmental beliefs that prevent a fuller connection with this inner awareness.

And often when people have an authentic transformational experience within Christianity, they are the first to be pushed out because it is contagious and frightening at the same time.

I hope that by now I have communicated that I love Christian people and that I honor all of you by telling you what I honestly believe. I hope that I have also communicated that I don't consider what I have to say to be the complete truth or any specific absolute truth. It only happens to be what I have discovered to be true for me. For me, its up to you to decide what is true for you. These problems are simply too complex and too old to have me arrogantly claim that I have it all nailed down.

And yet, I think I can speak to at least what I have observed to not work in specific ways, without generalizing it to all Christians.

Dear CardW i do believe you are speaking from the heart, but actually you are talking like a Jesuit. Forget about philosophy and look at it this way. There are two truths, the one is the bible and the bible alone, the other truth doesn t teach the whole bible and is a universal believe that somehow all the religions are equal and complementary. The bible is the word of God, all the other religions are inventions of the devil because satan was allowed by God to deceive the peoples of the world. Jesus said that the way to eternal destruction in hell is broad and wide and popular while the door of truth is very small and unpopular. This has always been the case since Jesus went to do his work in heaven. IF you want to know the truth you have to abandon your worldy vision of God or religion in general. Don t trust in human philosophies that make you drift away further and further from the truth. It is sad that the world equals Christianity with Roman Catholicism and does not understand that it is a cruel system in the eyes of God and many believers. Think about it, the pope claims his authority as a succesor of Peter whereas Peter himself said that Jesus the chief cornerstone was and he was just a little rock. The ridiculous eucharist is totally unbiblical and is meant to 'celebrate' Jesus crucifiction 24 7 all around the world. The papacy killed everybody who did not want to conform to their worldly view of Christianity. I hope you are open to investigate this point of view. Look for example the following link, it will give you an idea of how clever and subtile the devil is in deception: http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-...earch&plindex=6

I'll second that. My brain is too logical to accept something that doesn't make sense. I can understand differences of opinion or interpretation, but this one needs some 'splainin.

Forgive my amusement at your astonishment. Please do. I quite understand it. It is quite a statement to post on a fundamentalist, evangelical religious forum. My motivation was in sympathy for our friend who began this thread who seemed to me to be fearing that God might be angry with them for their thoughts about the mosaic rule which required those breaking the 'Sabbath'(it that the one?) to be killed by stoning. It is pathetic that a person has to fear for his soul if he begins to think about such a law being unjust, and worse than merely unjust. I feel sorry for anyone put in this position by religion - I suffered from it myself profoundly. So you see, my scandalous statement that Moses could have been a witch illustrates the freedom of thought that God has given me. And I am able to think such without fear of being spiritually squashed under His Thumb. Ah, freedom, thank you Jesus! (the truth will set you free)

Not to mention that Moses played magic with the pharoah's magicians. And it was not good magic. But evil pentilential, murderous magic. [Well, thats all fer now. I think I hear *snorts* and throat-clearing with groans and moans in the ether]

I am speaking nothing like a Jesuit. They claim to have a specific belief in Jesus and God. You seem to want to fit me into one of your conspiracy theories.



Your argument starts out with a request to ignore evidence. There are far more versions of truth than what you list here.



And how would allowing Satan deceive everyone further the exploration of truth? The whole premise makes no sense. This is a typical fear based belief structure that explains all the unknown either by assigning it to a mythical god or devil.



I have a method for discovering truth and it doesn't involve trusting the Bible simply because the Bible has not demonstrated itself to be a reliable source of truth. When something provides the results that it promises and can be verified by independent outside sources, I pay attention. Many of the claims that the Bible makes are simply unsustainable.



Well, Protestants took over the killing in areas they held power. The Christian church began killing people from its beginnings. Other Christians were killed and their books burned to create the current version of the Bible.

I watched the video and it is simply a series of innuendo, symbol association, and paranoia with little or no evidence of any connections between the various organizations and their goals.

Similarity does not prove association. Again these types of presentations prey on people's fears and anything that has its basis in fear is highly suspect as far as I am concerned.

My dear online friend, Monsieur d'Allan . . .

You have indeed presented some thoughts which could give one pause. I perceive a certain perspective, perhaps, which begs some attention. At the moment, I am working on a sermon, but would like to come back to this a bit later.

Meanwhile, best regards as always,

Dave

Number 15:32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Lev 24:16 Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.

Deut 21:18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us….” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

"I am speaking nothing like a Jesuit. They claim to have a specific belief in Jesus and God. You seem to want to fit me into one of your conspiracy theories."

I am sorry if i have offended you. And i am not trying to fit you in some sort of conspiracy theory. Actually i was making parallels between the way YOU think and the way Jesuits think. You see, Jesuits don t have the bible on their so, so therefore they have to add human traditions based on human philosophies. Nobody can be so arrogant as to say that he knows it better than God. As you probably know the most of our scientific knowledge is an accumulation of human philosophies that have their origins in pagan religions and Greek "saints" like Pythagoras etc. The bottom line is that the more you follow your own philosophies, the further away you will drift from the truth whereas the truth is actually plain and simple.

"Your argument starts out with a request to ignore evidence. There are far more versions of truth than what you list here."

No my argument states with a request to take this division between a biblical world view and non biblical world views as a hypothesis. When you fill in all the facts and knowledge and divide in one of the two camps you will discover a lot of parallels. For example, the bible says that the dead don t know anything and in are some sort of soul sleep whereas all the other religions all teach that after you die you go straight to heaven. Other religions never point to sin and have their origins in pagan Egypt. There are lots of facts that you can investigate, evolution/creationism, the history in light of bible prophecy etc. Eventually, if you are smart enough, you will have a library full of evidence that the world is the playground between the forces of good and evil, bible VS non-bible etc. The reason that even the most educated people find this hard to believe is because they don t have enough faith to consider the Satan-rules-the-world hypothesis. He has anticipated for centuries our behaviour and knowledge. For example, in Holland he has to use popular mediums like char to deceive people, whereas in dumb areas like India he uses statues that drink milk, for the catholics he uses mary visions/apparitions etc etc.

"This is a typical fear based belief structure that explains all the unknown either by assigning it to a mythical god or devil."
The reason that people are going to be lost is because they have not received the love of the truth. I want the truth no matter what it entails. In fact, i am convinced that i am not going to heaven and i am totally not afraid of going to hell because i am tired of all the pain i have been through in life and all of the lies. When i am consumed, my worries are consumed with me. Eternal destruction, to me, is better than continue living in pain. In addition to that, i don t deserve it to go to heaven because i am a terrible sinner. It is not out of fear that i am believing that the bible is correct. I have been searching for truth all my life, i was once a new ager and got troubles with demons etc.

"I have a method for discovering truth and it doesn't involve trusting the Bible simply because the Bible has not demonstrated itself to be a reliable source of truth. When something provides the results that it promises and can be verified by independent outside sources, I pay attention. Many of the claims that the Bible makes are simply unsustainable."

You cannot HAVE a method to discover truth because somehow all the scientific knowledge is based on certain propositions. IF you follow this way of thinking you will NEVER find the truth. It is however true that you should investigate independant outside sources. IF you do this you will find a lot of historical evidence for what happened in the bible, and what was predicted in the bible. More and more scientists discover that it is impossible that everything came together by chance and millions of years.

"Well, Protestants took over the killing in areas they held power. The Christian church began killing people from its beginnings. Other Christians were killed and their books burned to create the current version of the Bible.
I watched the video and it is simply a series of innuendo, symbol association, and paranoia with little or no evidence of any connections between the various organizations and their goals. Similarity does not prove association. Again these types of presentations prey on people's fears and anything that has its basis in fear is highly suspect as far as I am concerned" Of course protestants have not been perfect in history, but they were fighting for freedom and bible truths and have not committed crimes in such a scale that the Catholics have done. The Catholics where the ones who tortured people terribly, was deeply involved into world politics until it has become the whore of revelation it now is. I have kind of have the impression that you are afraid/or offended if you start believing that the bible was right all the time. I would encourage you to watch the other 36 videos of Walter Veith that handle history, evolution/creationism/ Roman catholicism/secret societies/ bible prophecy/archeological evidence etc etc. If you are not willing to investigate this with an open heart than by your choice you have rejected the truth

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Eze. 20:11; Lev. 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deut. 27:26. [RH, 10-17-1907]

NIV: "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.”

Folks, open your eyes. The children of Israel entered what we call the Old Covenant. Didn't God know they couldn't keep the law? Yes, but the problem is they didn't know that they couldn't keep law.

You see we are by nature legalists. We are proud - we are egotistical. All our lives we are striving to be # 1 in everything we do. When it comes to religion nothing is different. So Israel basically told God, "God you give us your law and we will keep it. In return you owe us heaven." So God said, "Okay, but if you disobey you must die." And they said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do."

that's for sure!

Moses created a God in his own (Moses') image, his God wants not love but fear.



I think we've had too much of that. If that is religion, down with it! Moses was a control freak! A despot! Shouldn't he be classed along with Stalin and others who killed their political opponents?

No offense taken. I'm sure there are parallels between how you and I think, but that doesn't mean anything.



Science is not based on pagan religious practices. That is simply ridiculous. The truth is we all follow our own philosophies. Your philosophy is based on YOUR decision to read the Bible in a particular way of YOUR choosing. You have absolutely no evidence that this is what some god wants you to do, because, unless you are hearing voices or are seeing things, you have not seen or talked with this god.

You, I suspect, are involved in a highly speculative reading of a very confusing and contradictory document called the Bible.



You, obviously haven't read very much about Egyptian religious practice since some forms of it do talk about sin. And not all religions believe that you go right to heaven. You haven't done your homework. And even Christianity has its roots within Greek, Hindu, and other ancient mythological gods. You will find god's all over the place born of a virgin, born on Dec 25, visited by wisemen, attempts on their life by an evil king, sent to earth as a god/man to save humanity, and even crucified on a tree.



Well I can agree with this, but my search for truth has revealed a much different world view than you.



And you have a preposition that has assumed that everything the Bible claims is true. Science is based on observable and repeatable evidence. This is the human condition. We all have this limit. There is a whole area of personal empirical truth. I can only believe what I believe. And what I believe is what I observe to produce results. You can ask me to believe that red is green all you want, but if I keep seeing red when you say green, I have to lie to myself to "believe."



Even if I saw these things happen, they aren't evidence for anything. Any kind of intermediary connection is not direct evidence. I find the Bible, mediums, witches, or prophets pretty much the same thing. Even with all their predictions and claims they still provide no evidence of a conflict between a Satan and a God.

How do you know Satan has anticipated all these things? Again, this is fear based paranoid delusions based on shoddy evidence and speculative thinking that links varous phenomina together with no basis in fact what so ever.

If the Bible is our defense against this kind of stuff then it is surely a poorly written and poorly organized set of books. This myth that you are presenting requires all kinds of manipulation and assumptions to even get it out of the Bible. It is far from a simple truth by your own admission.



Well, I am smart enough, and I have not found this to be true. There is always a slim possibility, but at this point it is highly unlikely when I read the history and the evidence from archealogy. There are far more believable reasons when you look at the contexts and the motivations of the various players.



I guess you are not aware of the history of John Calvin and Martin Luther. They both used torture and burned people at the stake. Martin Luther wrote one of the most anti-semitic books that is very likely responsible for many of the methods employed in the holocaust. Ellen White, if that is one of your sources, painted these men as gentle preachers of God's love and redemption. History and their own admission reveal a much different picture. John Calvin's methods of torture were so brutal that they had to chain people up at night to prevent them from commiting suicide. He carried out personal vendettas in the name of God and made life intolerable where ever he ruled. Christianity has been a religion of violence beginning with the formation of the Bible. Read the history.



I have heard plenty of this type of "evidence" and until I went and read the history for myself, I too, thought these things were true. I have spent thousands of hours studying this. I would put this back on you. If you are not willing to read all the positions on these histories, then you have rejected the truth.

Here are some quotes from the Egyptian book of Maat. It is a moral discourse that would be part of the Egyptian sense of ethics and its relationship to God. Note the strong simularities with the OT and even some NT sayings of Jesus.



In many ways the concept of Maat could be replaced by the idea of Christ the intercessor. Note this passage..



You can read more at this link

Maat: The Moral Ideal in Ancient Egypt

Dear Richard,

I think we both have something very in common. We both like to know the truth and we have spent years in searching. I am familiar with the idea that there were many Jesuses born from a virgin on the 25th of december. But scientists have already accepted the idea that Jesus could not be born on the 25th of December. I believe these other Jesuses were counterfeits of the real messiah in order to be able to deceive the world in times like these.(Zeitgeist) I see parallels here with the evolution theory. Because there are parallels they MUST be the same. But I don t have to be able to convince you right now from my point of view, because if i am right you will notice it in the endtime events. Satan will present himself as the God of the Hindus, Muslims, Christians etc. and he will even deceive the elect of the elect. We are now at the beginning of an explosion of occultism that will influence the mind to accept new standards. I know what i am talkin about, I once used to hate Christian fundamentalism and viewed it as backwards. I hope you will find the truth and if i am wrong than the future will prove that i am wrong but if i am right then these will be the things that are going to happen:
- The trade unions of the world(NAFTA, ASEAN, EU etc) will melt by some catalyzing event.
- The public face of occultism will increase
- There will be more mary statues crying, UFOS etc etc.
- More and more you will become an enemy of the state if you believe in the bible. The EU already accepted the view that believing in creationism/intelligent design is a danger to the democratic society.
- This new generation will be unholy, unthankfull etc. because they will not have a sense of connection to their ancestors. This will produce self centredness.
- Under the cloack extremism the governments will take away our civil liberties and control us and will eventually be used to persecute sabbath keepers.
- Roman Catholicism will strenghten their ties with other religions.
- The holy spirit madness in the pentecostal churches will spread like wildfire. There are already over 800 million pentecostals. Under influence of this demonic activity people will switch from rationalism to emotionalism and will create a theocracy in the United States. (thereby making it an image of Roman Catholicism).
etc etc..

I am glad to finally meet someone who also cares about the truth although we both have different view points.

"Your philosophy is based on YOUR decision to read the Bible in a particular way of YOUR choosing."

For worldly people the bible is just a book, to the believer the bible speaks to the heart. In order to understand the bible you need an open heart, like a child that is willing to learn. You cannot understand the bible if you view the bible as not being the true word of God. And i know how many stupid conspiracy theories are out there. I probably watched hundreds of videos. But the videos of Walter Veith are different from them, everything i learn on the university is complementary to the things he examines in his videos. I hope you will watch all of his videos and then make your decision. I hope you will watch his testimony too because it testifies of how powerfully God intervened in his life. The problems i experienced when i was searching for truth was that i was losing my heart and became like a computer that analyses data and put it in context etc. Without opening of the heart to biblical truths you will not understand what i am talking about. I hope you will take some time to watch Walters Videos and after that i hope you can tell me why or why not you do believe he is speaking the truth.

Seeker ... I would point out that "Your decision" and "Your choosing" is all that any of us have. The Holy Spirit points us to that each in a different way. We chose and decide based on how the Spirit has lead us individually. To think that we need to follow one person such as this Walter Veith ... whom I have no idea who he is and have no intentions of finding out ... to think that we need to follow what HE says is not right. That I do know.

I don't consider myself a follower of anyone ... not even Ellen White whom I frequently quote. I consider myself a follower of Christ. And I learn of Him through the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Since I don't believe in or know of whomever this person you are referring to is ... does not make me any less of a Christian. It does not mean that the Holy Spirit does not work in helping me make me personal decisions. NO He helps me to find the way of my choosing to interpret the Bible. It is not the way of Walter Veith I would assume. But it is the way of my choosing from the promptings of the Holy Spirit in MY life.

So, I will pass on the invitations to see his videos etc. I will spend my time in the Word. And NO ... that was not meant to say the word of Ellen White. But the real Word of God.

This method works