Not all preachers sent by God in scripture brought good news. There is a time for everything. Those living without Christ in the street - yes - good news. Those self righteous church members in the time of Laodicea (our time) - bad news with instruction on how to escape it of course.

we shouln't live in la la land when the church in the western world is struggling to reach westerners. One of the sins of Laodicea was saying that there is nothing wrong remember.

So, am I hearing you correctly?

You want to see more sinners convicted of their sins and change?

Is it the Holy Spirit that you want to see working? If so, ask Him...Is it the power of the Holy Spirit that you want...ie to convict and to change? Then you need to understand that you are seeking to be as God and you need to repent!

All we are asked to do is to be witnesses for Him.Nothing more and nothing less...

Thank you Neil. I was beginning to wonder about this conversation.

I would be interested in knowing more particulars about what you are talking about, because I have not met anyone who doesn't think there is something wrong or that we need to change. But I have seen lots of disagreement about WHAT it is that is wrong and WHAT it is that we need to do about it. Pastors and churches are trying many ways to reach lost people, but any time someone tries something different, there will be criticism. You say there should be more preaching with conviction, and others have other ideas. You are right, there is probably a time and place for most of the ideas, and that's why I am interested in knowing what kind of situation you are talking about.

Not true. Just witnessing is not all God asks us to do. there is much more to the christian life than just wittnessing. Some are called to speak on God'as behalf to his own people. That is not witnessing but is shepherding - which there is not alot of in yours and my church.

What I want is not being discussed here. Before we can speculate on what we want, we need to know what we believe about this particular issue. If someone asks why the preaching doesn't address the needs of the current church population then we should not automatically brand them a troublemaker.

You are wrong, MM. Speaking on God's behalf IS WITNESSING....Real mean find dictionarys and read definitions. Some find back up in the bible....

And your church may not be shepherding very well, but mine is doing just fine for where it is at....

Witnessing is taking the Gospel to those who do not have it. Shepherding may involve witnessing but will include, preaching, teaching, encouragement, rebuke and correction. (it will also involve dealing with wolves in your midst).

If your pastor hasn't taught you this stuff, then that particular side of shepherding has been neglected at your church.

What you are talking about is a 'calling', MM. All Christians are to be witnesses...only a few are called by God to do a specific work.

And you still haven't answered my question....are you desiring/wanting to convict of sin, like the Holy Spirit or are you wanting to be a witness for God? Totally different concepts and the desire is from two different sources in the Universe....

If you want to "Sheppard" as you call it, from what you described, it sounds like desiring to control people. It's roots are found in Eden with a desire to be God. I am sorry, MM...but I can not be a part of that...God made people to be free, and to grow with thier talents. It is theirs to exercise. Now, I can exhort, inspire, seek to encourage the use of that talent, but to control someone else's talent is not my right.

You are limiting those who God calls which is all of us, to simply sending out love messages.

Look in the bible and our church history. It is not all sweets brother but some of us have to do the hard work of standing firm when the disrupters or feminazi's come along and try to tame everything down. You think the last crisis of the church is gonna be coming from murderers and rapists? Think again. EGW says it is the message to the Laodiceans that is gonna cause the shaking because it unsettles the self satisfied and self righteous ones. This will bring the enemy out because his deceptive spell over the church as being a "safe and secure place" will be blown wide open.

It's less about calling out sinners and more about challenging the status quo with me but if you are saying there needs to be total love all around then I would have an issue with that.

We are at war mate and so you will have enemies if you start doing waht Jesus said and did. EGW says that the last great crisis will come from within our church - how do you deal with that I wonder? Is it because we have all been concentrating so hard on getting everyone to like us that we have changed and compromised our stand to acheive this? Laodiceanism is the enemy for us at the end here now - primarily a deception where those who are under it see nothing wrong and if history repeats will also persecute those who challenge them.

I suppose we could knock them over the head with The Truth and shove EGW down their throats for good measure.