I do not deserve the credit you gave me for this statement ... but I do agree and respect it.

Huh?

You replied to Redwood's post, but it wasn't Redwood you were quoting - thus the confusion.

Offending the people is not the measuring stick of truth IMHO. Yet, I know what your mean !

BUT! If we are followers of Jesus and His word, it is clear as to whom He offended and whom His message was good news. His message was offensive to "Know it all clergy" and was good news to simple people who were squeezed by their necks in ritualistic way to heaven so to speak. The preachers, as we know them today, are not what Biblically they have meant to be. We all are the preachers! There are pastors and deacons that take care of the spiritual needs of the church and make sure that the meetings are orderly and the truth is prevailing while empowering people by word of God to discover their gifts, but it is not their sole job to preach :). If we are looking to blame preachers for the lack of church's growth in US, then we are to look to ourselves... as it is a job of every Christian to preach the good news and develop relationships as Jesus did. So there are still millions of great preachers, they go unrecognized and are not given spotlight... yet they develop relationships and are not merely being a spiritual accountants that count every person who "comes up front" as being "saved".

Agree mostly but "preaching" or as the bible describes it in the gifts - "prophesying" is a gift only some have not all. We are all called to be witnesses but not all are called to preach.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

In Bible preaching and proclaiming is interchangeably used. Preaching is proclaiming, and likewise... proclaiming is preaching. Although preaching and teaching are similar... preaching in the Bible almost always used in the context of proclaiming the Gospel, or proclaiming word of admonition as in Jonah's case. Are all expected to proclaim (preach good news to the world). I think so. Can some do it better than others. Of course.

In context of Spiritual gifts Paul states that we have to not only use the once we have been given, but also desire others.

Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? 31But eagerly desire[e] the greater gifts.


As far as biblical usage of the preaching and teaching... in 1 Corinthians 12 teaching is....

1320 // didaskalov // didaskalos // did-as'-kal-os //

from 1321 ; TDNT - 2:148,161; n m

AV - Master (Jesus) 40, teacher 10, master 7, doctor 1; 58

1) a teacher
2) in the NT one who teaches concerning the things of God, and the
duties of man
1a) one who is fitted to teach, or thinks himself so
1b) the teachers of the Jewish religion
1c) of those who by their great power as teachers draw crowds
around them i.e. John the Baptist, Jesus
1d) by preeminence used of Jesus by himself, as one who showed
men the way of salvation
1e) of the apostles, and of Paul
1f) of those who in the religious assemblies of the Christians,
undertook the work of teaching, with the special assistance of
the Holy Spirit
1g) of false teachers among Christians



In Mark 16:15 preaching means ...

2784 // khrussw // kerusso // kay-roos'-so //

of uncertain affinity; TDNT - 3:697,430; v

AV - preach 51, publish 5, proclaim 2, preached + 2258 2,
preacher 1; 61

1) to be a herald, to officiate as a herald
1a) to proclaim after the manner of a herald
1b) always with the suggestion of formality, gravity and an
authority which must be listened to and obeyed
2) to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done
3) used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters
pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the
apostles and other Christian teachers



As you can see these are two different things and preaching is for everyone.

Your basic premise is wrong I feel. If you believe that all have the gift of preaching then you will run into problems elsewhere in scripture.

The word "preach" in the OT was only ever associated with prophets. That is those who preached had a direct message from the Lord whether through vision or inspiration. When you come to the NT, this is the understanding of the NT culture. A preacher was one like John the baptist with a very clear "thus says the lord".

It is also the understanding of EGW that preaching is giving a message direct from God. Not all have this gift and not all have the gift of teaching as evidenced by the gift lists in the Epistles.


This clearly demonstrates a pecking order if you like and pastors arein there as a gifted ministry to the church alog with others that were not mentioned like "helps" ect.

I understand greek and did two years of it in my theology degree. What you present shows me nothing that preaching or teaching are related.

if we continue the argument that all can preach then we will continue to have the situation in our pulpits - useless as tits on a bull.

 Quote:

useless as tits on a bull.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Not a very gentlemanly expression.

I would be interested to hear these preachers who can't preach! I can only remember a couple of sermons in my lifetime where I have left church feeling that I didn't get anything out of the sermon.

Even a child can preach a sermon that would have a message from God -- if the hearer was listening to the message with a heart open to the Holy Spirit and not just sitting there trying to work out whether it was a good sermon or not.

When we come to church, we come with the specific aim to be there to meet with God -- and our fellow sinners who all want to live better. We should come to the throne of God, and should ask Him to bless the speaker, to give him the right words to reach SOMEONE'S heart, and ask God to reach you, personally, through the message of the day.

If we have come specifically to pass judgment on the speaker, then, of course, it will be a bad sermon. If we have come to find a message for ourselves, with the help of God WE WILL FIND IT, REGARDLESS OF THE ABILITY OR OTHERWISE OF THE SPEAKER! Incidently, the Spirit of Prophecy has a lot to say about those who continually criticise the sermons. Check the long list in the Index.

Beryl

Beryl ... you have made some excellent points here. Food for thought.

When I hear some sermons that I don't feel are that good ... In my mind I try to rephrase it into what I think God would have to say if He were actually speaking. It has worked for me.

I've found I can be blessed with even the most lacking of sermons.

Thank you, Beryl! I was wondering if that particular set of words was an Aussie expression, so I didn't say anything.