I am not clear here as to the first couple of sentences....Could you expand/expound/clear this up a bit?

And not to harp on this, but here is where I am having problems-
Whether in bad day or good day, this is not the poit. Poit=Point , right?

If this is correct, then I would reply that this is the point...You are covered by God's grace. Your job is to focus on doing what is right in God's eyes. Some days you just don't feel like doing it...and you don't do it. Does that mean you are lost?
I don't think so...

The real issue here is if that person's tendency in character, attitude and motivation is still always love the Lord and love one another....and then this will brings him/her to the perfect obedience to His Law even in her/his weakness.
I kinda disagree with this....as it implys that you will realize perfect obedience....Sorry, but most days when I feel the lowest, are days that I am really living in obedience to God's law. And there are days when I am high and thinking things are really good/cool and I am kinda blowing it. So, "perfect obedience" is a judgement call outside of you...by Someone else...

Neil ... Some of us apparently pop in God's Grace and then pop out of God's Grace.

Pop IN ... Pop OUT ... Pop IN ... Pop OUT.

If you're perfect ... you are IN. You sin ... you're OUT.

It is like a Jack in the Box. You never have the assurance of Salvation. You are too busy popping in and popping out.

But you do get a lot of exercise.

Really? You proceed to give view of two options that are contradictory with each other, but of course I need to determine which of these is right because to make a mistake is fatal.



This is simple? Looks like more double speak to me.



Oh, there are variations. This looks pretty simple to me. I have to read all the arguments, go through all the variations, determine which side is right and after that figure out how I can keep from sinning either by God's power for stuff I can't do on my own, and figure out what I can keep from willfully doing and keep that perfectly. I also have to determine if the sin I'm doing is willful or my own weakness.

Oh this is really simple.

This and the rest of the posts more than adequately proves my point that Christianity is ultimately based on fear and confusion.

Richard I can understand your confusion and fear.

But there are some of us who have the assurance of Salvation through the blood of our Saviour.

I didn't say that I was confused and fearful. It is my view that Christianity is based on fear and confusion.

Sorry I'm confused.

That's not the Christianity that I know.

I said the first part above that was not complicated. The why we want to keep the commandments. Every view I have ever seen says we want to keep them becouse of love. So as mentioned this part is not confusing. BUT there is very much a debate and confusion about what happens when you sin after you are saved. That was the point. And I think you thought I was trying to say there is not some confusion on salvation and I was not. But I could have explained what I ment better but I had not had much sleep.

What in the world are you talking about? Double speak about what. I never said one way or the other was the way to go. I just present what I have seen as the MAIN two views in the adventist church. Then I said you should go study it for yourself. So not sure where the double speak in there is.

Ahh I see you don't believe in it so will not take the time to study it. Thats fine but would it not be better to not wast the time of people that do believe:) I mean we love you and will pray for you. And we will answer any questions you like. But I would bet if I wanted to we could debate on the subject and spend huge amounts of time on it with no chance of me changing your mind. But thats not my job anyway its the Holy Spirits job to convict you of the truth. But I will keep praying for you and I hope you find what you seek.

For those interested in study on the subject here is Faith And Works (Ellen White) online. http://www.nisbett.com/reference/fw/default.htm

Sulla ... thanks for the link. I particularly found this comment interesting that I found there ...



This would be in sharp contrast to those who state they will never again willfully sin. Personally , I know I will willfully sin. I will never arrive to a state that I stop doing so. But, I continue to strive to abide ... and He does give me blessings of victory each and every day.

Praise His name.

Victory over sin. Can we afford it?