There is a filter system that will weed out those who don't have committment to Christ. It is called the judgment. There is also the transformation at the second coming. Those who are saved yet corrupt ... will be made incorruptible. Thus they will never again be so corrupt as to make rebellion in heaven. But we will continue to grow in our experience.

On a side note ... a good look at the dictionary for the word corrupt ... might provide some good insight. When we SEE HIS FACE ... we will be changed and no longer will we be corrupt in any way.

This whole discussion illustrates many of my points.

Beware of this teaching. It is the same as all ancient priestcraft.

It teaches you to beat yourself up in the morning so you can be forgiven in the afternoon. In many ways it is the same as an addiction.

It enslaves you to shame and dependency.

It prevents you from growing up and becoming independent.

It robs you of joy, peace, and satisfaction by keeping you in a continual state of guilt and doubt.

It is based on conditional love, which is in reality manipulation.

It uses fear instead of reason and when confronted with reason it runs from it in fear.

IF you accept Jesus as your Saviour ... you immediately are SAVED at that point. You no longer and never again need to be lacking in "joy, peace, and satisfaction " and there is no state at all of "guilt and doubt" for ALL that disappers as soon as you accept Him as you Saviour. ALL that is laid at the foot of the cross. Never again do you need any of that unless you change your mind. Not until after the second coming will all that corruptness disappear. So, it is not based on how good you are. We will still need the transforming at the second coming.

But I do agree with you about those who have not accepted Him as their Saviour . They would have all of that.

I think you have inserted the word surrender when I actually said "abiding". We will continue to learn more about abiding in heaven. It will be wonderful to learn more and more about Him for the eternal ages. Our "abiding" will become stronger and stronger as we learn His real nature. Praise God.

See what I actually said below ....

" When we SEE HIS FACE ... we will be changed and no longer will we be corrupt in any way"

You know i really hope this is true, because i am having a hard time thinking about me maybe being accepted into heaven. If i ever come into heaven i don t want to be the person i am now or i d rather go to hell. I know that at the second coming we will be translated to be like angels for heaven. Life is a struggle i am going to lose but i don t care because Jesus, whosoever loses his life will find it. I am thinking about giving away everything i have and let God guide me no matter where it might end. If God doesn t help me, then life wasn t worth living anyway, because living with the one who fully understands me and has created me is living in darkness, death etc.

I did accept Jesus as my Saviour, but the joy, peace, and satisfaction did not come. This is a lie. I have joy, peace, and satisfaction, but it doesn't come from accepting Jesus as my saviour.

The response I get from this is well you really didn't accept Jesus as your saviour. I then ask them how do you tell if you have? And they can't answer that. And I haven't ever found an answer to that with all the reading and studying that I have done. When I did read the answer was, "When you obey God's law you know that you have accepted Jesus as your saviour."

This is a trap that keeps people in shame and doubt, because one can never be sure and the cost of not being sure is eternally fatal. It ALWAYS comes back to fear. This is the core of all Christianity. FEAR not love.

I have not found one system of Christian theology that doesn't eventually lead to a fear core other than those who believe everyone will be saved.

There is joy, peace and satisification in many things. You have apparently found it in something other than Christianity ... and that is fine also.

But the Christianity that you describe is not something I have ever witnessed ... so I can't relate much to your experience. But we all take different paths. Nothing wrong with your path. Enjoy.

I agree with Redwood. Through personal experience i ve learnt that if you don t appreciate the small things in life you will be not be thankfull for anything anymore. Just take a look at the trees and wonderfull animals and behold the glory of God. The richest people on earth are those who appreciate the small things because their perception makes them relatively the most happy. I think moneyhunting for example, is a desease because you will never get any satisfaction. The more money you get, the less it will have an additional value of hapiness which in turn has to be compensated by an even larger profit. What i am trying to say is that you can experience the joy that at least you know who you serve while the whole world is living in darkness and is infected by sin while they don t even know what it encompasses. But in contrast with many adventists i believe that we should keep the gospel simple. For instance, when people teach others that they have to be perfect, i think that is dangerous because Jesus said that the standard whereby you judge others, you shall be judged also. So salvation is very personal and not something that can be obtained from some sort of complicated procedure.

Right on Seeker ...

The Gospel or Good news IS simple. The Devil has attempted to make it complicated.