This is Part 2 of the letter:-

It was with this new-found experience of the goodness of a gracious God that EGW wrote books such as “Desire of Ages” (which stated unequivocally “In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived” (DA 530), and “Steps to Christ”, where the emphasis is on what Christ does in order to bring us to Him. These, and other books and articles written around that time have an emphasis on Righteousness by Faith in Jesus Christ alone.

As we study the Bible, we find that prophets are human, too. We can find a number of instances (Jonah, for example) where God needed to deal with the thinking of the prophet. Paul struggled (Romans 7:14-25) – there is no perfect human being on this earth, and God uses imperfect human beings to communicate to other imperfect human beings.

No doubt you have experienced the fact that when the “legalists” try to prove that our works have a lot to do with salvation, they do not begin quoting Desire of Ages or any of those later books, but they can rattle off quote after quote (often taken out of context) from the Testimonies – precisely the books that were written in the early years.

Looking also at the times in which the Testimonies were written, we find that, as always when new truths are discovered, there are those who go off into tangents. Many of the Testimonies were written specifically to counteract fanaticism which was rife at that time. Those who are the most adept at quoting the Testimonies are very often the last to look at the context in which they were written – and the last, also, to apply any of them to themselves!

This has ended up as one of those long, long posts, but I couldn’t really keep it much shorter.

God bless,

Beryl

I have posted these two parts of a letter in the hope that you will see how the writings of Ellen White changed over the years -- not that she had changed her mind, but that, as more and more truth was revealed to her by God, so her personal understanding grew . This is the way that God imparts knowedge to His people. We find it in the Bible as we read the stories of the characters portrayed.

By taking single verses of the Bible out of context, almost anything can be proved, and the same goes with the writings of Ellen White. I have a personal rule about any quotes -- go back to the original (if available) and check out the context.

Another thing to take into account is that Ellen White refused to be the conscience of any one else, and no member of her household was obliged to follow her eating habits.

I will deal with other things at another time.

Beryl

Sounds quite reasonable Beryl but can you show any place where there was ever an explanation given for her change? Is there any place where she ever said "I was wrong"?

Did she ever retract any "errors" that were made earlier?

That would seem to be what she should have done to be consistent wouldn't it? To my knowledge there was never an attempt to set the record straight. Had she done so we would not be faced with the problems we have today.

mel

Just to clarify Male Man ...

I have no problem with our church ... all the fundamental beliefs .... and I have NO problem with Ellen White.

However ... it appears to me that you and some like you ... DO.

Redwood,

If you have issues with EGW saying one thing and doing another then that is clearly hypocrysy and then that leads into more serious issues of her credibility as a prophet - I do not have issues with it at all.

I appreciate beryl's answers but have never gone along with the progressive idea when it comes to EGW's statements while under inspiration. The idea that allows for her to say wrong things and then dismisses them as "she was learning" type of thing. If that is the case then the Mormons and JW's should be taken seriously because that is the line they use.

It is better to understand context I reckon than try to make excuses for those hard to understand things EGW says. If you approach her statements with the preconceived culture that is in the church of her being in some way dishonest, then you will end up seeing everything she says in thart way. if you approach her writings as giving her the benefit of the doubt and apply biblical tests as you would a bible prophet, then you will see that there is allowance for anomalies in her writings.

Moses was a prophet and yet he struck a rock and sinned - does that make him a false prophet or does it make all of what he said suspicious? Elijah ran away, so did Jonah but does that make what these men say null and void? Yes prophets were human and so we need to make allowance for their mistakes. Whenever a prophet made a mistake it was corrected by God or another instrumentality. It never got left. Therefore, if EGW has made a serious mistake so as to lead someone astray ot cause some of God's people to stumble then it will be exposed and corrected as it was many times in her ministry.

This does not mean that I take the progressive understanding approach. When under inspiration, EGW was giving it as it was delivered to her from God - no mistakes idealogically (maybe in print - maybe?) but definately not a mistake to be left uncorrected by the Lord.

"If EGW has lied or deceived or been a hypocryte then she is no prophet"

"If you approach her statements with the preconceived culture that is in the church of her being in some way dishonest, then you will end up seeing everything she says in thart way"

As a rational being i ve found out that such statements are central issues that lead to important discussions. Let s be honest; why would any non sda-brother want to join a church that has a prophetess who is heavily criticed?

Either she is a truly from God or she was (un)willingly deceiving people by wrapping the bottom line of her message up in abstract commentary. I am feeling a little bit guilty that i am openly discussing Ellen because i am quite convinced that she is God s messenger for times like these. If Ellen is a deceiver than there is nobody left to hold on to concerning biblical prophecy and i might as well become an atheist.

I am struggling very hard with the issue of Ellen so i ll now write down my "angel" on the one side of my shoulder that says that she is truly God s messenger and the 'devil' on my other shoulder that says that Ellen is a deceiver.

This says the angel:

- 1844 is a prophetic date and it is no coincidence that around this time a lot of sects came into being. One was founded by God and the other by the devil to counteract God s church so that in times like these the whole world will say that SDA is just a little sect.
- The pillars of Ellen her messages, the commandments and the sabbath being the mark of God is very rational. The fourth commandment is the only commandment that is tied to the authority of God. The bible also says that when Israel was freed from captivity they should remember the seventh day so that they might KNOW that HE is the Lord who sanctifies them. This also makes pefect sense in the meaning that the bible says that the whole world will follow the beast and worship it, something which can only be explained by keeping the sunday holy. Than this is satan s authority. Maybe this was the reason that even though Jews didn t accept Jesus as the Messiah, the devil wanted to persecute them heavily because they were still accepting God s authority. The three angels messages are also very complementary to the scientific knowledge concerning religion in general, history and politics. Also Ellen mentioned satanic agencies, something which we nowadays have much more knowledge of. This makes her very credible
- If Ellen is God s messenger then we should have at least some clear evidence that God is with the church. There are some clear examples of people being healed, atheists becoming adventists after Godly intervention etc.
- Ellen showed all of the physical signs that a biblical prophet has. Stop breathing etc. This makes her also very credible
- Jesus said that those who keep and learn others the commandments of God will be great men in heaven. There are a lot of bible verses that support Ellen her teachings.
- The Church that Ellen stood for, is the only church left that doesn t conform itself with the world too much and sticks to the bible.

Now the devil speaks, something that is easier because of my depression:
- Ellen invented a fairy tale willing- or unwillingly. She could earn a lot of money because people would have to pay tithes and she could get a lot of attention. She could also just be like me, a schizophrenic person who lives in his/her own world, which in combination with fundamentalism and a lot of imagination causes her to think that she has an important message for the world. This can not be supported though, Ellen wrote clear sentences, something which a paranoid person like me is unable to do.
- Ellen wanted power. Power is the capability to influence people. She was very clever and invented a way to get control of people by using terrible tactics. She learned from other writers, used those ideas in combination with her own fairytales and made it in such a way that everybody that would follow her would be ensnared and never get out of it by using circular reasoning. In this way it can well be explained why she has authority. By using her interpretation, you are accepting her authority that the followers might KNOW that she is the one who received instructions from God. Without the writings of Ellen White, in the SDA church, you are still left with a biblical interpretation by her as an interpreter.
- Look at all of the scientific statistical data that point out to an old earth, are they all wrong?
- If accepting Ellen as a messenger of God is not necessary for salvation and if you feel better by the bible and the bible alone, wouldn t it be better to stick with the bible so that no matter what happens you have a clear consience AND a Christian living?

Well there is lots more, but i am too tired and depressed to type on. Please forgive me for my mixed up reasoning....PFFFF i need a vacation!!!

Oh yeah just wanted to say one thing. The fact that Ellen didn t live perfect should be viewed as encouragement to sinners like me who think they ll probably never gonna make it. If God was with Ellen while she wasn t perfect, then i have hope as well... SOmething like that..

I think the issue is about inspiration. If we don't get that right we can entrap ourselves in a very bad place with nowhere to go except to say the church is corrupted and is preaching false doctrine - in apostacy in other words.