One of the arguments of the old age earth theory is that starlight takes considerable amount of time to reach the earth. The counter arguments is that God could make the stars with already reaching lights, yet not so obvious problem is stars burning out by the time the light even reaches the earth. Any thoughts on the issue?

Many Adventists believe the universe is old, therefore the problem of starlight isn't an issue for them. They believe that life on Earth is young. They believe in the six-day creation week. What they are unsure of is what happened on the fourth day.

14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

►There is more than one way to literally understand this passage. In verse 14 the words "let there be" are "hayah" in Hebrew. It means to exist, to be, to become, to come to pass. Adventists that believe the stars were created before the creation week believe what is happened on the fourth day is that God assigned the role of the Sun and Moon the role of keeping time for day and night. Verse 16 states that God created the Sun, Moon and stars but does not state when these were made. It is verse 14 that seems to indicate they were made on the fourth day although it can be read to mean their roles were assigned to them on the fourth day. The light from the Sun and stars may not have even reached the surface of the Earth before God separated the waters on the third day.

►Another explanation is that the speed of light has not been constant. It may have traveled faster in the past than it does now. This is not a popular belief among creationists but some are inclined to consider it.

►Yet another is that time itself is relative. That is, time moves at different speeds in different parts of the universe. Time on Earth could be moving slower than time in other parts of the universe. Thus in "Earth time" the stars are only six to ten thousand years old but in the stars time they are millions of years old.

►Another possibility is that our solar system is near the center of the universe and thus in a gravity hole. The light from the stars than is falling into the hole. This tends to go along with the time hypothesis. Gravity affects the speed at which time moves. If our solar system were near the center of the universe, time for us could be traveling much slower than for the rest of the universe. Light from the stars would also fall to us like falling into a gravity hole.

I am inclined to believe the universe was created before the creation week. Perhaps that is because that is easiest for me to understand. When scientists start talking about the speed of light being variable and time moving at different rates in different places, I have to put duct tape around my head so it doesn't explode.

Simple answer to the problem! It took three days for all that water in the atmosphere to vaporize. Clouds cleared away presto the heavenly bodies became visible. If we just knew how Moses was given the information it might solve the problem.

mel

It sounds here like God made the lights just for earth. So that would be the Sun, Moon and nearest stars. And He didn't even make the Sun just for our Earth, like the moon is. The Sun makes light for all the planets in our system. We know from scientists using those humongus telescopes that other systems have suns at their centers too. It doesn't say God made several/many lights, just two lights. The sun and the Moon. So it seems to me that God was just making our little corner of His universe.

I'm inclined to believe that God made the whole universe at times prior to Earth's creation. Just seems wrong that He would create all of that just for our one planet. Heck, we can't even see it all. And since we don't know the age of the universe, any object newly planted amid it would see the heavenly bodies light at the different rates of their ages.

From a more modern physics perspective this one is a bit of a moot point. The universe *is* its space-time-matter-energy (all those things are tightly interrelated in General Relativity). If God created the universe in an instant, he had to create all of the space-time in all of the universe, including that between every star and here. It makes no sense, and in fact is impossible, to create 'empty' space-time: 'space tells matter how to move, matter tells space how to curve'. In the absence of matter-energy there is no space-time.

So, to distil a bunch of confusing words: in creating the space between us and a star, the light between us and the star would be created too.

ewwww Bravus, you just had to go and get all scientific on me.

Why? The star is already there and sending out light. Then POOF in pops planet earth. And if God wants empty time/space, He can have that if he wants. NYEAH

hehe - yeah, Ames, I saw your comment about 'quitting when it gets sciencey' in one of the other threads after I'd written the above blurb, and winced... hang in there, babe!

Oh, absolutely. He can do whatever He wants, which is one thing that makes these discussions rather maddening. But hey, I'm putting science into service to help the creationists *out* of a problem, surely that's gotta count for something?

One of the reasons I went nuts in science class and I equally drove my profs nuts, was that I would often think in a straight line and ignore all the variables.