#15751 - 10/27/04 08:01 AM
The Work and the Life Chapter 7
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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THE WORK AND THE LIFE God is the source of life and light and joy to the universe. Like rays of light from the sun, like the streams of water bursting from a living spring, blessings flow out from Him to all His creatures. And wherever the life of God is in the hearts of men, it will flow out to others in love and blessing.
Our Saviour's joy was in the uplifting and redemption of fallen men. For this He counted not His life dear unto Himself, but endured the cross, despising the shame. So angels are ever engaged in working for the happiness of others. This is their joy. That which selfish hearts would regard as humiliating service, ministering to those who are wretched and in every way inferior in character and rank, is the work of sinless angels. The spirit of Christ's self-sacrificing love is the spirit that pervades heaven and is the very essence of its bliss. This is the spirit that Christ's followers will possess, the work that they will do.
When the love of Christ is enshrined in the heart, like sweet fragrance it cannot be hidden. Its holy influence will be felt by all with whom we come in contact. The spirit of Christ in the heart is like a spring in the desert, flowing to refresh all and making those who are ready to perish, eager to drink of the water of life.
Love to Jesus will be manifested in a desire to work as He worked for the blessing and uplifting of humanity. It will lead to love, tenderness, and sympathy toward all the creatures of our heavenly Father's care.
The Saviour's life on earth was not a life of ease and devotion to Himself, but He toiled with persistent, earnest, untiring effort for the salvation of lost mankind. From the manger to Calvary He followed the path of self-denial and sought not to be released from arduous tasks, painful travels and exhausting care and labor. He said, "The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give His life a ransom for many." Matthew 20:28. This was the one great object of His life. Everything else was secondary and subservient. It was His meat and drink to do the will of God and to finish His work. Self and self-interest had no part in His labor.
So those who are the partakers of the grace of Christ will be ready to make any sacrifice, that others for whom He died may share the heavenly gift. They will do all they can to make the world better for their stay in it. This spirit is the sure outgrowth of a soul truly converted. No sooner does one come to Christ than there is born in his heart a desire to make known to others what a precious friend he has found in Jesus; the saving and sanctifying truth cannot be shut up in his heart. If we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and are filled with the joy of His indwelling Spirit, we shall not be able to hold our peace. If we have tasted and seen that the Lord is good we shall have something to tell. Like Philip when he found the Saviour, we shall invite others into His presence. We shall seek to present to them the attractions of Christ and the unseen realities of the world to come. There will be an intensity of desire to follow in the path that Jesus trod. There will be an earnest longing that those around us may "behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29.
And the effort to bless others will react in blessings upon ourselves. This was the purpose of God in giving us a part to act in the plan of redemption. He has granted men the privilege of becoming partakers of the divine nature and, in their turn, of diffusing blessings to their fellow men. This is the highest honor, the greatest joy, that it is possible for God to bestow upon men. Those who thus become participants in labors of love are brought nearest to their Creator.
God might have committed the message of the gospel, and all the work of loving ministry, to the heavenly angels. He might have employed other means for accomplishing His purpose. But in His infinite love He chose to make us co-workers with Himself, with Christ and the angels, that we might share the blessing, the joy, the spiritual uplifting, which results from this unselfish ministry.
We are brought into sympathy with Christ through the fellowship of His sufferings. Every act of self-sacrifice for the good of others strengthens the spirit of beneficence in the giver's heart, allying him more closely to the Redeemer of the world, who "was rich, yet for your sakes . . . became poor, that ye through His poverty might be rich." 2 Corinthians 8:9. And it is only as we thus fulfill the divine purpose in our creation that life can be a blessing to us.
If you will go to work as Christ designs that His disciples shall, and win souls for Him, you will feel the need of a deeper experience and a greater knowledge in divine things, and will hunger and thirst after righteousness. You will plead with God, and your faith will be strengthened, and your soul will drink deeper drafts at the well of salvation. Encountering opposition and trials will drive you to the Bible and prayer. You will grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ, and will develop a rich experience.
The spirit of unselfish labor for others gives depth, stability, and Christlike loveliness to the character, and brings peace and happiness to its possessor. The aspirations are elevated. There is no room for sloth or selfishness. Those who thus exercise the Christian graces will grow and will become strong to work for God. They will have clear spiritual perceptions, a steady, growing faith, and an increased power in prayer. The Spirit of God, moving upon their spirit, calls forth the sacred harmonies of the soul in answer to the divine touch. Those who thus devote themselves to unselfish effort for the good of others are most surely working out their own salvation.
The only way to grow in grace is to be disinterestedly doing the very work which Christ has enjoined upon us--to engage, to the extent of our ability, in helping and blessing those who need the help we can give them. Strength comes by exercise; activity is the very condition of life. Those who endeavor to maintain Christian life by passively accepting the blessings that come through the means of grace, and doing nothing for Christ, are simply trying to live by eating without working. And in the spiritual as in the natural world, this always results in degeneration and decay. A man who would refuse to exercise his limbs would soon lose all power to use them. Thus the Christian who will not exercise his God-given powers not only fails to grow up into Christ, but he loses the strength that he already had.
The church of Christ is God's appointed agency for the salvation of men. Its mission is to carry the gospel to the world. And the obligation rests upon all Christians. Everyone, to the extent of his talent and opportunity, is to fulfill the Saviour's commission. The love of Christ, revealed to us, makes us debtors to all who know Him not. God has given us light, not for ourselves alone, but to shed upon them.
If the followers of Christ were awake to duty, there would be thousands where there is one today proclaiming the gospel in heathen lands. And all who could not personally engage in the work, would yet sustain it with their means, their sympathy, and their prayers. And there would be far more earnest labor for souls in Christian countries.
We need not go to heathen lands, or even leave the narrow circle of the home, if it is there that our duty lies, in order to work for Christ. We can do this in the home circle, in the church, among those with whom we associate, and with whom we do business.
The greater part of our Saviour's life on earth was spent in patient toil in the carpenter's shop at Nazareth. Ministering angels attended the Lord of life as He walked side by side with peasants and laborers, unrecognized and unhonored. He was as faithfully fulfilling His mission while working at His humble trade as when He healed the sick or walked upon the storm-tossed waves of Galilee. So in the humblest duties and lowliest positions of life, we may walk and work with Jesus.
The apostle says, "Let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God." 1 Corinthians 7:24. The businessman may conduct his business in a way that will glorify his Master because of his fidelity. If he is a true follower of Christ he will carry his religion into everything that is done and reveal to men the spirit of Christ. The mechanic may be a diligent and faithful representative of Him who toiled in the lowly walks of life among the hills of Galilee. Everyone who names the name of Christ should so work that others, by seeing his good works, may be led to glorify their Creator and Redeemer.
Many have excused themselves from rendering their gifts to the service of Christ because others were possessed of superior endowments and advantages. The opinion has prevailed that only those who are especially talented are required to consecrate their abilities to the service of God. It has come to be understood by many that talents are given to only a certain favored class to the exclusion of others who of course are not called upon to share in the toils or the rewards. But it is not so represented in the parable. When the master of the house called his servants, he gave to every man his work.
With a loving spirit we may perform life's humblest duties "as to the Lord." Colossians 3:23. If the love of God is in the heart, it will be manifested in the life. The sweet savor of Christ will surround us, and our influence will elevate and bless.
You are not to wait for great occasions or to expect extraordinary abilities before you go to work for God. You need not have a thought of what the world will think of you. If your daily life is a testimony to the purity and sincerity of your faith, and others are convinced that you desire to benefit them, your efforts will not be wholly lost.
The humblest and poorest of the disciples of Jesus can be a blessing to others. They may not realize that they are doing any special good, but by their unconscious influence they may start waves of blessing that will widen and deepen, and the blessed results they may never know until the day of final reward. They do not feel or know that they are doing anything great. They are not required to weary themselves with anxiety about success. They have only to go forward quietly, doing faithfully the work that God's providence assigns, and their life will not be in vain. Their own souls will be growing more and more into the likeness of Christ; they are workers together with God in this life and are thus fitting for the higher work and the unshadowed joy of the life to come.
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15752 - 10/27/04 08:13 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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In the first two paragraphs of this chapter I find what I feel personally to be the most thought-provoking insight into the mind of Christ and the heavenly angels.
As humans, we so often find some "tasks" when dealing with other humans, to be "revolting", but we often go ahead because it is what is expected of us.
And then I read that "This is their joy. That which selfish hearts would regard as humiliating service, ministering to those who are wretched and in every way inferior in character and rank, is the work of sinless angels. The spirit of Christ's self-sacrificing love is the spirit that pervades heaven and is the very essence of its bliss."
Wow! That is love supreme! Do I count ALL service for others as a joy? What about those "difficult people"? How can I best change my attitude?
Well, I guess that only I can answer for myself. What thoughts do you have?
God bless,
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15753 - 10/27/04 08:29 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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I'm meditating on the last bit of this sentence: "Our Saviour's joy was in the uplifting and redemption of fallen men. For this He counted not His life dear unto Himself, but endured the cross, despising the shame." A simple, but powerful thought: Christ despised the shame and humiliation (abuse) that was heaped upon Him. I think sometimes I imagine He just blithely ignored it, but that wasn't the case. He hated it. It was as intrusive, grating, harsh, unnerving, insulting and loathesome to His Spirit to be ill-treated as it is to mine when I feel ill-treated. Yet He endured the cross nonetheless, and He did so for my sake. He wasn't a masochist; He didn't enjoy it. He didn't do it to prove what a "hero" He could be, or to live up to some self-image of His. He didn't endure the cross merely so that He could beat any social-Darwinist in a contest of self-elevation via bootstrap torsion. He put up with that which He did not deserve, and which He loathed utterly, for my sake, because He loves me. That's amazing. When love of Him permeates our hearts He gives this same strength to us, to endure even that which we thoroughly despise, for the sake of His glory -- and what is His glory? His Love made manifest through us to others. Those are my thoughts at the moment -- I'll read the rest tomorrow! 
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15754 - 10/27/04 03:27 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: ]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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Nico, those are wonderful thoughts. Thanks for sharing them.
God bless,
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15755 - 10/27/04 07:58 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
The only way to grow in grace is to be disinterestedly doing the very work which Christ has enjoined upon us--to engage, to the extent of our ability, in helping and blessing those who need the help we can give them.
Ellen White's use of the word "disinterest" (-edly, -ed love, etc.) here and in other places has caused some confusion, I believe. I think it might be worthwhile to discuss what she meant by that.
I don't think it is possible to both engage in loving outreach to others and be "disinterested" in either them or the outcome.
If we are not interested in them personally, they will feel it, and will reject our efforts. No one wants to feel like a "charity case" even if they are one (i.e. in serious need), and no one wants to feel like "just a number" or just another "mark" or "prospect", or just another "notch on the baptismal belt." Because of other statements EGW made concerning this, in particular (but not limited to) her famous statement about Christ's own approach to people ("the Saviour mingled among men as one who had their best interest in heart....won their confidence ..." etc.), I must therefore conclude this is NOT what she means by "disinterestedly" or "disinterested love."
If we are not interested in the outcome, this will be reflected in our efforts as well as our attitude toward those efforts. We would then not care about the effective and manifest RESULT of those efforts in terms of how they impact others, and effectively be "doing duty" just to assuage our own consciences and wash our own hands of responsibility. We would then lose motivation for outreach, for studying to improve our methods and ministries, and sink into lukewarm apathy and self-satisfaction. Therefore I must conclude this also is not, and cannot be, what EGW meant by "disinterested." I can't believe she would be saying, "reach out and minister but don't really care!" That would be absurd.
This leaves only one way I personally can interpret her use of this word, and that is in regard to the object of SELF. It is one of our recurring problems as human beings that often when we seek to minister to another, we sometimes inadvertently get caught up in "making it about ourselves" instead of making it about THEM. To put it another way, we "care TOO much" about the results, or rather, care about them in the wrong way: in how they reflect upon ourselves. When that happens, the going gets rough, and we get going -- in the opposite direction. We withdraw. We become discouraged. We take it personally. We start to "NEED" the object of our attentions to respond positively -- to be helped, to be healed, to show gratitude, to demonstrate our efforts are working and worthwhile. This is NOT "evil" in itself, it is part of being human -- of course we all have a need to be needed and be appreciated! And these are not "bad" or "wrong" or "sinful" needs, they are legitimate parts of being human that God built into us as part of our experience in "the circle of love" or "the cycle of giving and receiving" so that we can be blessed when we give. However, I think what EGW may be alluding to here is we need to learn to set those personal needs ASIDE and not let them interfere with the work.
I've seen firsthand what can happen when this is not done. You want to help someone quit smoking, let's say, and you pour your effort into encouragement and practical help and they STILL backslide. Then you throw up your hands, conclude they are playing games with themselves and you, and write them off. Seen it time and time again. You want to help someone move beyond emotional and/or spiritual issues -- but they keep turning up like bad pennies, so you conclude the problem is that the person you seek to help just isn't trying or isn't cooperating and you get fed up and throw your hands up and write them off as hopeless cases. Seen it time and time again.
Christ doesn't give up, and love doesn't fail. If we find our own efforts flagging, it's legitimate to "come apart and rest awhile", but we should never just quit, especially not when accompanied by a blanket judgment against another's prospects for eternal life. (Note I am NOT saying push ourselves on people -- it is usually quite clear when someone is REJECTING our efforts outright, that's a different matter altogether--provided, of course, that this reaction is NOT the product of them sensing OUR lack of interest in them personally and responding accordingly, as I mentioned above. Because if that's the case, what's called for is not just redoubling the same ineffectual efforts, but changing what WE are doing and OUR attitude in it.)
What do you all think?
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15756 - 10/27/04 08:13 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Quote:
No sooner does one come to Christ than there is born in his heart a desire to make known to others what a precious friend he has found in Jesus; the saving and sanctifying truth cannot be shut up in his heart. If we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and are filled with the joy of His indwelling Spirit, we shall not be able to hold our peace. If we have tasted and seen that the Lord is good we shall have something to tell. Like Philip when he found the Saviour, we shall invite others into His presence. We shall seek to present to them the attractions of Christ and the unseen realities of the world to come. There will be an intensity of desire to follow in the path that Jesus trod. There will be an earnest longing that those around us may "behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29.
I'm so glad she wrote that SECOND clause, the one about "If we have tasted and seen ..." I personally don't feel I am "there yet" on the first clause, the one that starts, "If we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and are filled with the joy of His indwelling Spirit..." Sometimes I feel I am, but often I'm just plain NOT. However, the second clause leaves no room for self-doubt concerning how "right" we are or how close we are to God or how "filled" we are. The second clause includes anyone who has simply TASTED AND SEEN that the Lord is good. Wow, that includes me!!!
Like the woman at the well of Samaria, I can run off and say to others, "Come and see this Man ... is this not the Christ?" I may still be horribly imperfect. My life may still be full of areas in which I need God's grace and correction. But that doesn't have to stop me from sharing how good He is and what I have been privileged to have "tasted and seen"! Because I have tasted and seen for myself, I "have something to tell" and can "invite others into His presence." Because I have "tasted and seen," even though I'm not yet everything God wants me to be, I still feel that "earnest longing that those around us may 'behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.' " And because these statements include me, I don't have to wait for my life to "be perfect" or even for my heart to ring with joy, before I start sharing the Good News with others about what a faithful and loving Friend Jesus is, and how even just knowing Him the little bit that I do has been a blessing to me.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15757 - 10/27/04 08:16 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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I apologize for posting so much, it's not my intent to hog the forum here. I have a very low attention span and reading long passages is difficult for me -- as is retaining what I read later. Making notes of my thoughts & impressions as I go helps me retain some key concepts. By posting these here I can get feedback and also help if there are things I don't understand or am not seeing correctly. I want to know God. I don't want to be imprisoned in my own deceptions. But if it is annoying to others I can make notes on my own computer and not put them here. I don't want to be a problem and especially I don't want anyone else to feel crowded out from participating because I post so much.
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15759 - 10/28/04 04:07 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: ]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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Nico, don't apologise. You have just so much to offer -- keep offering it!
It is true that what really matters is that we have a personal experience with the Lord -- and that is what we have to offer to other people.
We can't really invite people to "taste and see" if we haven't tasted ourselves! How are we to know WHAT there really is that is worth tasting if we have not done so ourselves.
We also need to realise that there are times (in reality) when our tastebuds are not functioning properly, and good food does not taste like anything really special to us. Spiritually, there are times when we just seem to be going through a low.
When that happens, we can still pass on to people the thrill of what God has done for us -- in the past -- knowing that, despite our low times, He is still doing wonders for us right now.
We can also assure our "contacts" the truth that God is with them in their low times just as much as He is when everything is bright.
God bless
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15760 - 10/28/04 05:34 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 7176
Loc: This Side of Calvary
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Beryl, Quote:
And then I read that "This is their joy. That which selfish hearts would regard as humiliating service, ministering to those who are wretched and in every way inferior in character and rank, is the work of sinless angels. The spirit of Christ's self-sacrificing love is the spirit that pervades heaven and is the very essence of its bliss."
Wow! That is love supreme! Do I count ALL service for others as a joy? What about those "difficult people"?
As humans we are often given the opportunity to receive joy from doing good things for others. Studies indicate that even if we do nothing more than observe someone doing a good deed for another it will increase our saratonia (incorrect spelling ... the happy harmone) level. Isn't that a precious gift? Simply being being able to observe good service brings us great joy!
_________________________
Aspire to inspire before you expire!
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#15762 - 10/29/04 02:09 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Daniel]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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I can't measure my serotonin levels obviously but I can definitely say I feel incredibly blessed when I merely witness a genuine act of kindness or care, and even more when I get to participate in one!
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15764 - 11/05/04 04:46 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Daniel]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
If you will go to work as Christ designs that His disciples shall, and win souls for Him, you will feel the need of a deeper experience and a greater knowledge in divine things, and will hunger and thirst after righteousness. You will plead with God, and your faith will be strengthened, and your soul will drink deeper drafts at the well of salvation. Encountering opposition and trials will drive you to the Bible and prayer. You will grow in grace and the knowledge of Christ, and will develop a rich experience.
So often we hear people say that they don't know enough of the Bible to go and share the good news of salvation with others, but somehow this quote seems to be saying to me that sharing is the very thing that will bring us to our knees for help, and in so doing our own lives will be blessed. I know that is how I have found it to be.
Anyone like to share their thoughts on this?
God bless,
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15765 - 11/05/04 05:54 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 7176
Loc: This Side of Calvary
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Beryl, Quote:
sharing is the very thing that will bring us to our knees for help, and in so doing our own lives will be blessed.
Agreed, if we do not witness for whatever reason, we loose may potential blessings.
There is an old saying that something like this, "the students teach the teacher."
In anything when you are preparing to teach you must pray, study and prepare yourself. The Holy Spirit will give us the words to say if we ask, listen and believe.
In this light we are not only doing our fellow humans a disservice by not sharing, but we are the big loosers.
_________________________
Aspire to inspire before you expire!
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#15766 - 11/06/04 12:29 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
So often we hear people say that they don't know enough of the Bible to go and share the good news of salvation with others, but somehow this quote seems to be saying to me that sharing is the very thing that will bring us to our knees for help, and in so doing our own lives will be blessed. I know that is how I have found it to be.
Anyone like to share their thoughts on this?
Sharing does not always have to begin with "good news of salvation" it can be about how God is working in your life. Call it the 5th Gospel if you like. Because it is your personal experience and testimony it will probably be received more readily than the story of Jesus. You never know, it could lead to further discussion regarding your faith.
I don’t know about others, but when something significant happens in my life and I don’t share it with others, it just dies inside of me. On the other hand, when I do share it, myself and others receive a blessing.
Now comes the problem. Not many people appear to feel comfortable sharing. Last Easter we had a special agape meal and were told that there would be intermittent opportunities to share God’s blessings with others. When the sharing time was announced, nooooo one from the church got up to share. The silence was deafening. Eventually, to my amazement, my sister, who is not an Adventist and was just visiting, got up to share. I found it really embarrassing that a visitor was the only one to share so I shared something too.
I used to love to share with others the new insights, challenges, experiences and changes that God is making in my life. Unfortunately being the only one to share has its drawbacks. I sometimes wonder if there is something wrong with me. Am I the only one who has problems? People enjoy what I have to say but because I am the only one to share, I feel exposed and alone. I don’t feel supported. 
So, how do you get people who cannot even share in church to share outside of the church?
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#15767 - 11/06/04 01:20 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: ]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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I wonder whether the main problem in your illustration, Beapeacemaker, is the way in which people were asked to share. I can understand how a person may feel scared that when they stand up they will forget what they want to say, or it will come out all wrong, or ------.
In contrast, what do you think that the reaction would be if those same people were asked to just turn to one other person (preferably not in their own family) and just share what Jesus has done for them? Somehow I feel that everyone would find something for which to praise God, and this could be the first step in training them to share their blessings.
Next time make it groups of 3 or 4, and so on.
Just a thought,
God bless,
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15768 - 11/07/04 02:54 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Vera]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I am not sure what the response would be to share in groups of 3 or 4.
It seems to me that people are afraid to tell of how God has helped them to overcome. I believe the reason for this is because they would have to admit their faults and weaknesses. Church, even though it is for sinners, is sometimes not very welcoming to those of us who are struggling with life, relationships etc.
I don’t know what it is like in you church, but mine seems to be filled with people who are “doing it right”. They don’t appear to have any problems. And when they do admit to having a problem it is often too late. The family has broken down or they leave the church. I have known of such incidences in my church. Why do they not seek help when things first begin to go wrong? Why do they leave it until it is too late?
When I asked for help from the church, I did not get it. I ended up going outside of the church for help. Others who did receive help from the church have been judged and ostracized and ended up leaving the church. In a current relational situation one person was told that the problem was theirs and they had to change. End of story, just change and everything will be ok. No offer of how to do it. Another issue is confidentiality. It seems, when a problem is disclosed the whole church soon learns about it.
The following are some of the statements that I have heard, regarding mine and other people’s attempts to obtain help: *You must have some unconfessed sin in your life or things would be different. *What do you expect if you eat meat? You are sinning. *He/she is demon possessed *This would not be happening if you spent more time with Jesus
As you can see from the above information, some churches are not exactly safe places for sharing. I believe, somewhere along the line we have been conditioned to believe that it is not okay to not have it all together. That being the case, people do not seek help or share their burdens with each other and things pile up.
Your church may not be like this at all, and all of this may sound very judgemental. However, this has been my experience in two different churches that I have attended.
In answer to your question regarding small groups, I think spontaneous sharing would probably be a non event. However, if people knew each other and felt safe, they may be willing to share.
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#15770 - 11/08/04 08:52 AM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: Daniel]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I tend to believe that we should focus on the positive when testifying and too many details are not necessary. e.g. "I thank you all so much for your prayers and concerns I asked for prayers for my illness ... my husband ... etc. And, I am happy to tell you that God is working in our lives on this issue."
I too agree that we should focus on the positive. Sometimes, however, it is necessary to mention the negative that God has helped with, e.g. conquering envy, anger, food addictions etc, things that others can identify with. Things that no one wants to admit they may be struggling with.
In the Baptist church that I used to belong to, people would sometimes share, but no one knew what it was about because they were not specific. On the other hand, when a person is specific, without too many details, one can identify with the person and their dilemma. That being the case, the listener who does identify with the person, may be helped or know that there is hope for them. As well, knowing that others are facing similar issues makes one feel not so alone.
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#15773 - 01/21/05 10:59 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: TGM-3]
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Registered: 04/05/03
Posts: 2127
Loc: Perth, Western Australia
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Hi, Restin', that sounds GREAT! Would you like to post the URL for your book? Maybe others here on C/A would like to pass this news on to their friends.
It is wonderful how God firstly gives to everyone some talents, then helps them find ways to use those talents.
Everyone of us is unique, and God has at least one special way in which we can individually be used.
God bless you as you use your talents for Him.
Beryl
_________________________
"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#15774 - 01/30/05 03:18 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: TGM-3]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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Restin, I would love to read your book. I first found the Lord at 16 and joined the SDAs (was not raised in it) but later fell away. Got involved in ceremonial magick mostly -- Crowley, Thelema, O.T.O., Enochian, Goetia -- and my own brand of self-styled Satan-worship. Not exactly aura-fluffing white-light new-ager stuff, but I can relate to having been on the spiritual fringe! Anyway I'd love to read it.  May I have the URL please? Thanks! Nico
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15775 - 01/30/05 03:21 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: TGM-3]
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Registered: 11/22/03
Posts: 777
Loc: Beyond your grasp
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By the way, I notice you live in Apopka, Florida. Do you attend that church where the pastor has his sermons on the internet? I LOVE listening to him! Derek Morris, that is his name I think. Is he your pastor?
Just wondering ...
Nico
_________________________
"After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
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#15776 - 01/30/05 11:44 PM
Re: The Work and the Life Chapter 7
[Re: ]
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Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 426
Loc: Apopka, Florida
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Nicodema, thanks for your interest in my book. I went far away from the church, but came back in a much deeper way. Will confess I'm not a regular church goer, and haven't seen Morris's web site, but would like to. Haskell Williams is the pastor at the Apopka church. I can't seem to manage sitting still in church very much; so, my SDA enrichment is mostly on the web at various SDA websites. If you would like to read my book it is titled, "Deep Therapy in the Fast Lane" at www.restin.7h.com, where you can read it entirely without charge. It's under my pseudonym, Restin Wells. I have another on-line book which is an allegory on inner child issues and the journey to wholeness. It's a picture story that seems to be for children but has important application to adults with inner child problems holding them back in life. I still need to finish the last chapter, but 65 pages are up. It's title, "Nomark & Taver, and Their Search for the Warrior Princess, Tirza". You can read it at www.taver.7h.com. Thanks Nicodema, and others, and let me know what you think, if you feel like doing so.
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