>>Too deep for this simple servant.<<

Aw, pshaw, LHC, ...no humble pie for you – I credit you more

>>I'm of the opinion that salvation is not dependent, for the most part, on proper understanding of this point.<<

Agreed, in part; however, I begin to suspect that more than simple belief is encouraged, perhaps, even necessary.

>>However this does not preclude the reality that misunderstanding can bring much avoidable difficulty.<<

We then, are all in a peck of trouble.



I read the above as speaking to qualities rather than, intrinsically, substance; that is, this very earth – which abides forever.

Not as weird as:

On september 11th, two planes (1+1) crashed into twin towers that resemble #11 standing up, these stand in the middle of the State of New York, which was the 11th state to join the union. Both of the towers were 110 stores tall, the first flight to crash into tower was AA(11) flight 11, which had 92 passengers onboard (9+2 = 11). Flight AA 77 had 65 passengers on board (6+5=11).

September 11th is 254th day of the year (2+5+4=11), after September 11th there are exactly 111 days left in the year.

Exactly 11 years prior to the event, GHW Bush made his famous "New World Order" speech before the Congress on September 11th, 1990.


Not related, but both in Daniel, and revelation the "evil horn" that comes out among the other 10 is the horn#11.


Coincidental?

Thanks, for reminding me - that was really interesting, wasn't it?

Reminds me of the coincidences between Lincoln and Kennedy.

Re: the horns of Daniel and Revelation...

I suppose that depends upon how one factors the events; that is, some would see the "evil horn" as the 11th; whereas, others might focus upon the dissolution or uprooting of the three - thereby, establishing the "evil horn" as the 8th horn

Speaking of "factors"...

how might the 'orthodox interpretation' regards the Image of Nebuchadnezzar factor such kingdoms as the Islamic Empire, Holy Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Mongolian Empire (the most contiguously vast Empire in history), Spanish Empire (the most vast Empire in history), etc... Incidentally,

those empires purported to represent the various metals of the Image of Nebuchadnezzar - dealt in usury/interest -

in contrast to those listed in the above - who eschewed usury/interest (by and large as some [etc...] did engage in interest at later dates in their kingdoms).

You couldn't be more correct, jasd. And if we believe that our salvation is based upon how well we understand all of what the Lord would have us know, He will bring us up to date when it is most advantages for all concerned.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD." Isaiah 55:8 KJV
Regards!

>>...if we believe that our salvation is based upon how well we understand all of what the Lord would have us know,<<

Indeed, thankfully not...

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Notice St Paul uses the first person singular...

While on the subject of Daniel 2..., who are the “They” of

Dan 2:43 ... they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

that “will mingle themselves with the seed of men”?

And, what did St John mean by the clause “they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men – but shall not cleave”? Did he mean that there would be included – in the kingdom of the feet and toes – OTHER than the seed of men – per “they”?

”They” ...sounds awfully like ETs, say what!? y’know, like,

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven ...
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Might that “war in heaven” have already occurred and they’ve arrived – parked in orbit and

now wanderin’ amongst us...?

Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noah, ...

Dan 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

Daniel explains the dream to Nebuchadnezzar.

Dan 2:38 ... Thou art this head of gold.

Babylon is represented by the head of gold. If I from here onward made reference to Babylon, then "they" would be the people, kings, princes of Babylon.

Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, ...

We move beyond Babylon, and "they" are succeeded by another power - the Medo-Persian empire. If I from here onward made reference to Medo-Persia, then "they" would be the people, kings, princes of Medo-Persia.

Dan 2:39 ... and another third kingdom of brass, ...

We move beyond Medo-Persia, and "they" are succeeded by another power - the Grecian empire. If I from here onward made reference to Grecia, then "they" would be the people, kings, princes of Grecia.

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise ...

We move beyond Grecia, and "they" are succeeded by another power - the Roman empire. If I from here onward made reference to Rome, then "they" would be the people, kings, princes of Rome.

Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Since all the other materials represented kingdoms, and kingdoms are made up of their people, rulers and culture, this clay must be people and rulers that are themselves weaker co-existing entities to the dominant Roman power.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

So "they", Rome, are weakened and are intermingled/intertwined with the surrounding people, but this mix-and-match, hybridized kingdom will come to an end when the Lord returns.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Or if we prefer: On 8/8/08, the orbiting UFO's will land, and they (hailing from Omicron Persei 5) will mingle with us Terrans.

Hi! JamOne

I am charmed ;-) that my posts should have elicited your first submission to these boards. You’ll find that I do not generally gravitate towards the much-parroted, but to the elliptical, the forward hypothesis, the allusive construct, that which is vague, numinous, and sometimes – am simply obtuse – in its most charitable sense, of course

>>Dan 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

Daniel explains the dream to Nebuchadnezzar.

Dan 2:38 ... Thou art this head of gold.<<

Yes, so far so good. At first blush, this parallels how I, also, on the face of it, read Daniel 2; however, though Daniel 7, 8, and 9 are also given with interpretation – the ‘understanding’ of these interpretations were/are not provided... What's that say about the 'understanding' of Daniel 2? Note: Daniel 12:4

“But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”

...sounds like an imperative tah me, say what? Would an imperative from Gd translate as commandment? one not made obsolete in the AD30s – due to the time factor of inherent events; namely, “the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”?

>>If I from here onward made reference to Babylon, then "they" would be the people, kings, princes of Babylon.<<

Granted.

>>We move beyond Babylon, and "they" are succeeded by another power - the Medo-Persian empire. If I from here onward made reference to Medo-Persia, then "they" would be the people, kings, princes of Medo-Persia.<<

However, Daniel seems to have missed the very transparency of this construct – as I cannot find him utilizing “they” anywhere between verse 36 and its encounter, together with “themselves”, in verse 43 – where they are both employed as singular and contraindictative to “seed of men”. Apparently,

Daniel reserves implementing “they” and "themselves" until they are used in a singular sense. (...no popups or Red Flags indicated –

from your perspective?)

>>Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

Since all the other materials represented kingdoms, and kingdoms are made up of their people, rulers and culture, this clay must be people and rulers that are themselves weaker co-existing entities to the dominant Roman power.<< [ed.jasd]

Umm, not necessarily so...

Umm, not necessarily so...

Three observations obtain:

>>clay must be people and rulers<<

(perhaps, obliquely “clay must be...”, but more forthrightly – the clay may, in fact, represent another aspect – another thing, altogether – of the vision)

>>are themselves weaker<<

(is the stronger/”weaker” inference either in view or warranted?)

>>to the dominant Roman power.<<

I’ve been exposed to like theories in Seminars proffering such a dominant evolutionary process – culminating in the most formidable or dominant Rome. That preceding,

might we not look at “clay” as a continuation in that particular, hypothetical progression? that is, clay would dominate Rome, not vice versa?

Then, of course, in light of Daniel 12:4, the above may be no more than polemical triangulation...