Oh, you just have not been on the forum long enough. Years ago, I called it, "righteousness by self-deprivation."

Robert puts this burden on those he disagrees with but won't lift his little finger to do the same. Does that sound familiar?

Gerry

God's formulae for prosperity in Dt 28 not withstanding?

God blesses with life & health, but He who owns the silver, the gold, and the cattle on a thousand hills, will keep His people paupers? You have a joker for a god, Robert!

Gerry

PS
Oh, I forgot, you would say, "Old Covenant!"

Which reminds me of a strategy advocated by an archdemon. "Insert yourself into the simple situations which call for plain and obvious duties, and complicate them, and complicate them again, until at last no one involved in them can make sense of the confusion."

Gerry

You are right Gerry we shouldn t make things too complicated. Either the whole law is binding (like Jesus said) or there is only one law left. Love God and your neighbour. Jesus said the law was binding, this includes the sabbath day. It is HIS day of authority. Sunday is a man-made glibberish deception tool for satan. Makes him feel like a genious. Not ONE little part of the law will cease to exist. Everytime people are trying to say that the sabbath is not binding anymore, are following man made philosophies. Think about it, on the new earth would it matter which day we would set aside to remember our creator?I think it would be very important that God places his authority in our life. If you create something, say kids, wouldn t you want to be the one who is deciding how your children are going to get raised?what if some stranger came over and said they should play soccer whereas you want em to play tennis?And what if eventually they ll play soccer?Intuitionally you know that there is something very wrong with authority.

No there is not one verse in the bible that talks about the abolishment of the sabbath. If it were explicitly the case, there would have been written bible books about it, because the sabbath has always been such a dominant issue for the Jewish people and for the first Christians as well. I think the text where the bible talks about being cursed by the law, is telling us that if we believe the law will save us, we should be perfect and no human being has ever achieved the state of perfectness.

Also Jesus thinks it is very important to keep the law because he says that in the end many will come to him and say, let me in, and then Jesus will answer them i never knew you, workers of lawlesness. Well somethin like that...

That is easy. The Creator of the Universe said Himself that the Sabbath was made for man. In Hebrew, Adam's name means man. Look it up yourself in Strong's Concordance #120 and #121.

The Sabbath was made for Adam and for all his posterity. Remember that Genesis 2: 1-3 says that God blessed and made holy the seventh day of the week. Surely you don't think he made it holy and blessed for Himself. Does it make sense to you that God would make the Sabbath day for the benefit of man and then not tell any man about it for almost 2,000 years?

By the way, I am positive that Jack Sequeira also believes, along with many non-SDA scholars and writers, that Adam knew about the Sabbath and kept it before the Fall.

Did God give a command to Adam at that time or not?

It was a command, not a "warning" as you claim.

Gen. 2: 16, "And the Lord God commanded the man, sayng...."

And the Bible is clear that Eve knew about the command of God. Eve says herself that God "said" not to eat of it and it is again clearly implied in 3:13, 14. Surely you cannot think that God would have punished Eve for something disobeying a command of which she was ignorant.






May I respectfully suggest that you read the whole of verses 33-35. You will find that Jesus is not talking literally but spiritually. For instance, does the mention of "bags" refer to literally bags? Of course not. Does verse 34 refer to literal treasure? Of course it doesn't. Is verse 35 referring to our literal "loins" which must be "girded"? Again, anyone can see that he is not talking about literal things here. Just as, again, verse 35 is not talking about literal "lights burning," rather about spiritual lights.

Or do you believe that all these things referred to in Luke 12: 32-35 are literal things?



I am not questioning that these commands mean me, but I am showing you that you cannot possibly apply what Jesus says in Luke 12: 32-35 to literal things. Therefore it is plain as the nose on your face that you are not properly interpreting the verses if you insist that one line of it is literal but all the rest is spiritual.

If Jesus intended for all his followers to sell everything they own and give all their money and belongings to the poor, we would see that command repeated and we would also see Peter, John, James, and Paul doing the same. We don't. Therefore you are misinterpreting Jesus' words.

Gal 3:10 "For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; [why?] for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.”

1] Those who make or rely on obedience to the law for their ticket to heaven are UNDER A CURSE! How so?

2] They must abide BY ALL THINGS IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW [the first, five chapter of the OT] and do them or they have had it!

Keeping the Sabbath to be saved is really keeping sin. Agape fulfills the law. Keeping the Sabbath as a means of heaven is self-centered! It smacks with insecurity and selfishness. Hence such works will condemn the legalistic believer in the judgment.

Agape is the fulfillment of the law. Where there is selfless acts there is agape, but we can only experience agape if we have the full assurance of salvation.

Thank you for making my point! Bingo!

Peter, John, James and Paul aren't your example...Christ is! Jesus said that He fulfilled the law. The Bible also says that "agape is the fulfillment of the law" Along with this we read, "God IS agape." Therefore God (Jesus) is the fulfillment of the law.

Now look at His selfless life! That's the fulfillment of the law. Anything short of this is sin....Hence you and I are falling short of God's agape love. That's why Jesus said that you are to love your neighbor as you naturally, sinfully love self - i.e., "Love your neighbor as you love yourself"! One command!

We are born loving self. That's why David could say of himself, "I was sinful by birth". The law demands that we take this self-centered love and stop projecting it inward, but rather outward. Agape, as Jack has stated correctly, has no self in it. Where you have self you have sin.

Spiritualize this away:

Agape principles:

Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them.

In other words if I love you because you love me back that's not agape. That's self-love. I love you because you love me. But if you don't love me I hate you....That's human love.

33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full.

That's human love. I love you if you do me right....If I give you money I expect it back, but that's not agape....Here's agape:

35 But love your enemies [those who hate you], do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

That goes along with the principle seen in Luke chapter 12...the one you question.

If you can question agape I can question the Sabbath as presented by you and other SDA.