'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day

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#163238 - 03/28/08 04:36 AM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: John317]
Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 15363 Loc: Columbia, SC	Originally Posted By: John317 Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo If God saw a need for the Sabbath for Adam & Eve before they sinned .... Show me where God gave Adam & Eve the Sabbath! ....I can't find where God gave it to Adam & Eve. Do you see it above? The Sabbath was made for Adam and for all his posterity. Remember that Genesis 2: 1-3 says that God blessed and made holy the seventh day of the week. Before the fall! We are after the fall and the Sabbath no longer points to a perfect and complete creation. If you don't believe me look at it: Gen 2:1 "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, [why?] because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. You see God didn't start creating after that 1st Sabbath. Creation was complete...it was sinless - it was perfect! Is this true now? Answer: No! Therefore the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless. You are teaching nonsense.... Edited by Robert (03/28/08 04:40 AM) _________________________ "We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#163241 - 03/28/08 04:49 AM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: John317]
Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 15363 Loc: Columbia, SC	Originally Posted By: John317 If Jesus intended for all his followers to sell everything they own and give all their money and belongings to the poor.... The following was the result of the outpouring of God's Spirit in the life of the believers. We see agape is action: Acts 4:32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own; but all things were common property to them. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. 34 For there was not a needy person [poor] among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales, 35 and lay them at the apostles’ feet; and they would be distributed to each, as any had need. Note...everyone one was blessed. There were no poor....They had everything in common. No that's mine...there was no selfishness. _________________________ "We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#163278 - 03/28/08 11:26 AM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Robert]
Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 15363 Loc: Columbia, SC	Correction....The following should read: "The following was the result of the outpouring of God's Spirit in the lives of the believers. We see agape in action:" _________________________ "We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#163279 - 03/28/08 11:39 AM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Robert]
Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 15363 Loc: Columbia, SC	Quote: Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: John317 Originally Posted By: Robert Gerry Cabalo: If God saw a need for the Sabbath for Adam & Eve before they sinned .... Show me where God gave Adam & Eve the Sabbath! ....I can't find where God gave it to Adam & Eve. Do you see it above? The Sabbath was made for Adam and for all his posterity. Remember that Genesis 2: 1-3 says that God blessed and made holy the seventh day of the week. Before the fall! We are after the fall and the Sabbath no longer points to a perfect and complete creation. If you don't believe me look at it: Gen 2:1 "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, [why?] because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. You see God didn't start creating after that 1st Sabbath. Creation was complete...it was sinless - it was perfect! Is this true now? Answer: No! Therefore the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless. You are teaching nonsense.... Not only is the Sabbath of creation meaningless after the fall of mankind, but it was never about formal worship. While the 7th day has always been the Sabbath its meaning...what it symbolizes...is in transition. Failure to realize this leads to confusion and legalism. At creation the Sabbath stood for a perfect & sinless creation. God rested because His work was perfect - it was complete. If Adam and Eve rested the 7th day it was an acknowledgment of God's sinless and perfect creation. But mankind fell and creation became corrupted. Lucifer became the god of this world and his principle of self has ruined it....So no longer does the Sabbath symbolize God's perfect and sinless creation. Rob Edited by Robert (03/28/08 11:42 AM) _________________________ "We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#163287 - 03/28/08 01:28 PM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Robert]
Gerry Cabalo Registered: 03/20/00 Posts: 7412 Loc: Wilkesboro, NC	Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: John317 Originally Posted By: Robert [quote=Gerry Cabalo] If God saw a need for the Sabbath for Adam & Eve before they sinned .... Show me where God gave Adam & Eve the Sabbath! ....I can't find where God gave it to Adam & Eve. Do you see it above? The Sabbath was made for Adam and for all his posterity. Remember that Genesis 2: 1-3 says that God blessed and made holy the seventh day of the week. Before the fall! We are after the fall and the Sabbath no longer points to a perfect and complete creation. If you don't believe me look at it: Gen 2:1 "By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, [why?] because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. You see God didn't start creating after that 1st Sabbath. Creation was complete...it was sinless - it was perfect! Is this true now? Answer: No! Therefore the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless. You are teaching nonsense.... [/quote] No, what you are saying is what makes no sense! Sinful man has become very forgetful. That's why we have atheists & evolutionists. All the more reason to have a constant reminder that there is a God in heaven who created all things and that someone messed it all up! Just because what I see is no longer perfect, does that give me the liberty to forget the Sabbath? No! It is still a reminder of what once was perfect, and in entering His Sabbath rest, I can rest assured that this creation marred by sin will someday be restored once again to its pristine perfection! Gerry Edited by Gerry Cabalo (03/28/08 01:40 PM)
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#163288 - 03/28/08 01:36 PM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Robert]
Gerry Cabalo Registered: 03/20/00 Posts: 7412 Loc: Wilkesboro, NC	Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: John317 If Jesus intended for all his followers to sell everything they own and give all their money and belongings to the poor.... The following was the result of the outpouring of God's Spirit in the life of the believers. We see agape is action: Acts 4:32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own; but all things were common property to them. 33 And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. 34 For there was not a needy person [poor] among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales, 35 and lay them at the apostles’ feet; and they would be distributed to each, as any had need. Note...everyone one was blessed. There were no poor....They had everything in common. No that's mine...there was no selfishness. If owning anything is selfishness, why do you perpetuate it by owning things? How ironic! You find only warning where God explicitly commanded Adam & Eve not to eat from one tree, and yet find a command where it was voluntary for the early disciples to have things in common. You might want to reverse your glasses if you are wearing one. Gerry
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#163290 - 03/28/08 02:00 PM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
truthseeker007 Registered: 12/15/07 Posts: 391	Come on Robert, where is your love for the truth? I ve never said that the law can save you, only Jesus can. But the law is binding in its totality. Why are you fighting against the sabbath? Why are you doing this?are you really that blind? Do you believe in any commandments at all? be consistent, either the whole law is valid, or there is no law. THe only commandment which brings us more into harmony with our creator should be honoured. I know for sure that Jesus agrees with me on this. _________________________ Seventh day atheist
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#163291 - 03/28/08 02:05 PM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Robert]
Gerry Cabalo Registered: 03/20/00 Posts: 7412 Loc: Wilkesboro, NC	Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: John317 I am not questioning that these commands mean me, but I am showing you that you cannot possibly apply what Jesus says in Luke 12: 32-35 to literal things. Spiritualize this away: Agape principles: Luke 6:30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ love those who love them. In other words if I love you because you love me back that's not agape. That's self-love. I love you because you love me. But if you don't love me I hate you....That's human love. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even ‘sinners’ lend to ‘sinners,’ expecting to be repaid in full. That's human love. I love you if you do me right....If I give you money I expect it back, but that's not agape....Here's agape: 35 But love your enemies [those who hate you], do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. That goes along with the principle seen in Luke chapter 12...the one you question. If you can question agape I can question the Sabbath as presented by you and other SDA. Oh man. I've seen some very compulsive people in my lifetime, but you probably take the crown. It seems like no matter what the subject of discussion is, if you are involved in it, it will soon turn into the gospel of poverty, righteousness by self-deprivation! If you are really serious about this, Robert, there's an order you can join - the Franciscans. When you have joined them, then we'll know that you REALLY believe what you are advocating. Until then, you are no better than the Pharisees who lay burdens on people but lift not a finger to carry the same. Gerry
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#163293 - 03/28/08 02:30 PM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Robert]
Beryl Registered: 04/05/03 Posts: 2179 Loc: Perth, Western Australia	Quote: Therefore the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless. You are teaching nonsense.... Then, Robert, you consider the fourth commandment to be rubbish? Just be3 careful how you answer that. Beryl _________________________ "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."
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#163358 - 03/28/08 08:54 PM Re: 'Deception': Christians War Over Worship Day [Re: Gerry Cabalo]
LifeHiscost Registered: 06/14/03 Posts: 4145 Loc: Western United States	Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Oh man. I've seen some very compulsive people in my lifetime, but you probably take the crown. It seems like no matter what the subject of discussion is, if you are involved in it, it will soon turn into the gospel of poverty, righteousness by self-deprivation! If you are really serious about this, Robert, there's an order you can join - the Franciscans. When you have joined them, then we'll know that you REALLY believe what you are advocating. Until then, you are no better than the Pharisees who lay burdens on people but lift not a finger to carry the same.[/color]Gerry Finally it's out. However Jesus even has a way of salvation for such as this. "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. "Luke 23:34 KJV OTOH there is a special place reserved for those who are satisfied with their enlightenment. "Jesus said to them, " If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ' We see,' your sin remains." John 9:41 NASB Regards! _________________________ Lift Jesus up!!
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