Hmmm. Just because Mr. Koot hasn't responded in a few hours does not mean that this champion of truth is "throwing in the towel". Wasn't it you that complained when HE said something similar after days of silence from you?

Mr. Koot is a busy man unlike myself. He has great responsibilites with his ministry. He is a much wanted man for he speaks the truth in Love. But I am quite confident that he is not throwin in the towel. HE is not known for doing that.

Good, let's wait and see if he will respond to my text on the "10 Reasons Why the Sabbath IS NOT a Ceremonial Law", besides some other objective questions.

By the way, I have some additional reflections on this "love factor" so much emphasized by this "new alliance" folks. Did you know that those who advocate that gays and lesbian be accepted in the regular Church life, including the ministry, have their basic philosophy exactly that "love" is to be more comprehensive than many Christians believe?

The "love factor" is even more emphasized by them, with the idea that love to one another could include the love of a man for another man, and of a woman for another woman that could lead them to be joined as a normal "couple", apt to receive even the blessing of a minister on their "wedding".

If you ask one of these people what they think about the 10 Commandments as a rule of life they will resort to the same reasoning of anti-Sabbatarians--"Oh, that is old stuff. We don't have any fixed codes like that. The 'love factor' is what guide us, no more rules like this Jewish thing of keeping a Sabbath day. . ."

Would that be a mere coincidence?

Hi John: Thanks for the peer review of Gal. 4...etc.

One thing that persuades me that Galatian's "observing times" is tantamount to Manasseh's is these contextual verses in Gal. 4-8-9.

"Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"

This indictment of spiritual idolatry seems more grandiose than keeping festivals etc.. Whatever it is, it doesn't get high marks with brother Paul, here.


blessings,

oG

Calling brother Brito a legalist, while extremely inflammatory, is the kind of abuse that many have been subjected to on CA since 2006. I must ask, friend Stan, if this kind of autocratic put-down is within the spirit of Club Adventist.

Brother Brito is rightly quoting the Word of God in Revelation 20.

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works" (v. 13).

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works" (v. 12).

"And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear" (1 Peter 1:17).

See also, Acts 26:20.


blessings,


oG

I am in the process of responding to your '10 reasons.' That is what this has been all about. Things are progressing, although not necessarily in a direction you might like.

Right now, please admit or deny the following. When you respond, please simply say, 'Admitted' or 'Denied.' Here are the items:

1. The Old Covenant is recorded in Exodus ch. 19 and 20.

2. The tables of the Old Covenant are the Ten Commandments.

3. There is no Biblical record of the Sabbath being kept by people before Mt. Sinai, Ex. 16.

4. Nowhere in Paul's epistles does he instruct the Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath.

5. Nowhere in Peter's epistles does he instruct the Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath.

6. Nowhere in John's epistles does he instruct the Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath.

7. The Old Covenant was abolished at Calvary.

Thank-you for your anticipated brief responses--please admit or deny the foregoing.

Dave

But an interpretative scheme cannot violate the words used. This is an area where the formal training in Biblical Greek which John3:17 received, can be very helpful.

Dave

According to whom? Are you presenting yourself as an expert? Do you see yourself as the judge here? Because the same words could be applied to what you have presented. Do you recognize that? Your statements here are not evidence, they are not on point. How about sticking to the Bible instead?



No, you haven't. You have presented your opinions and 'homilies,' that's all. You have not presented a credible case in support of your assertions. You have not provided exegetical treatment of the verses, simply your statements of opinion. Sorry, that won't cut the mustard--unless you're preaching to the choir. I am reminded of the serious trouble Gen. MacArthur got into in Korea. One big problem reportedly was that his staff was somewhat sycophantic. He had lost touch with reality. Mr. Brito, consider this discussion a reality check. I am in the process of methodically going through your foundational and supporting statements, and analyzing them--as well as presenting alternative positions. When I have finished, the evidence will I think be quite clear. At the moment, I have made some requests for admission in another post. Please respond to these requests, and we shall take it from there. Let's try to make some progress on this thread. Please, please, not another wordy post which meanders here and there. Just answer the questions on this one, and we can get somewhere. Thank-you.

Dave

Those are wonderful quotes and we all ought to study them closely and remember them. We should also know the following section of The Great Controversy, pp. 482-483. As you study the following paragraphs, do you see a conflict or contradiction between them and the quotes above from Selected Messages and Steps To Christ? -----

Every man's work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness. Opposite each name in the books of heaven is entered with terrible exactness every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel.

The law of God is the standard by which the characters and the lives of men will be tested in the judgment. Says the wise man: "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment." Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14. The apostle James admonishes his brethren: "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty." James 2:12

Those who in the judgment are "accounted worthy" will have a part in the resurrection of the just. Jesus said: "They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, . . . are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection." Luke 20:35, 36. And again He declares that "they that have done good" shall come forth "unto the resurrection of life." John 5:29. The righteous dead will not be raised until after the judgment at which they are accounted worthy of "the resurrection of life." Hence they will not be present in person at the tribunal when their records are examined and their cases decided.

Jesus will appear as their advocate, to plead in their behalf before God. "If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." 1 John 2:1. "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us." "Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them." Hebrews 9:24; 7:25.

As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected. When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life, and the record of their good deeds will be erased from the book of God's remembrance. The Lord declared to Moses: "Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book." Exodus 32:33. And says the prophet Ezekiel: "When the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, . . . all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned." Ezekiel 18:24.

All who have truly repented of sin, and by faith claimed the blood of Christ as their atoning sacrifice, have had pardon entered against their names in the books of heaven; as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life. The Lord declares, by the prophet Isaiah: "I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for Mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." Isaiah 43:25. Said Jesus: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels." "Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven." Revelation 3:5; Matthew 10:32, 33.

Hi Dave: I can accept that. We must also respect the context.


oG

(Ps. I did hear from Roy Gane yesterday. He provided some references for me to procure. He also has an article in the recent Ministry Magazine).

Ideas about 'context' are more subjective. Notions about context should never violate the text itself. Kinda like a DNA match. No matter HOW GOOD the circumstantial evidence may appear (and context is in the order of circumstantial evidence) if the DNA does not match, there is not a case.

However, speaking about context in Galatians, take a look at the first couple of chapters ('chapters' were added by the translator. The original had no such divisions.) The epistle to the Galatians is specifically addressed to the issue of Judaizing. That has been recognized for some centuries, I believe.

Dave