No, not silly at all.

Ask and answer these few questions, for starters:

1) When was the New Covenant ratified?

2) Was the Sabbath commandment valid in Jesus day?

3) When did Sunday become a part of the New Covenant?

4) Did Christians keep the Sabbath after Christ's death and ascension?

You want to comment on those quotes? What do you make of them in terms of what we've been talking about here. How are you understanding and applying them to what has been said so far about the meaning of "perfection"?

Sorry. We are moving so fast . This was in response to Robert and Gerry's comment about giving to the poor just a couple hours ago.

It may, possibly, be of interest that: hermeneutically, the greater part of Xtianity holds-to an antitypical/typical interpretation of the Ark of the Testament in the Temple, as it is noted in the book of Revelation; that is,

the Old Testamental [antitype] Ark of the Covenant prefigured St Mary as its type – in that, it held and encompassed the written word of Gd/ Jeus Christ, the Word; Aaron’s rod, symbol of the High Priesthood/ Jesus Christ, our High Priest; and manna as bread/our Bread of Life, Jesus Christ.

Simple dogma? or truth?

>>1) When was the New Covenant ratified?<<

Upon the death of its testator...

>>2) Was the Sabbath commandment valid in Jesus day?<<

Insofar as it was part of the general economy and the economy of law-keeping, per se.

>>3) When did Sunday become a part of the New Covenant?<<

Upon its recognition, observance, and sanctification - as The Lord’s Day.

>>4) Did Christians keep the Sabbath after Christ's death and ascension?<<

Yes.

Yes?

Ex 31:12 And the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the people of Israel, ‘You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. [RSV]

There's a problem with your understanding here. The Sabbath, whether creation, redemption or a new creation (i.e., the new earth) ALWAYS points to a finished work. Always!

Sanctification - growth, is always ongoing and incomplete. As EGW states we will never attain to perfection this side of eternity. And John states that we can't say that we are without sin. Therefore, sanctification can't point to a finished and complete work until we are raised incorruptible. Then, in the new earth, all will come before God every Sabbath as a sign of His perfect work of re-creation.

But right now that's not the case. And since sanctification is always incomplete and ongoing, the Sabbath as tied to sanctification has been misunderstood.

Now look at what God said again: "I, the Lord, sanctify you." This means to set you apart. How have we been set apart? Hebrews chapter ten makes it clear:

Verse 10: "By this will [Christ's doing & dying) we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

The NIV makes it even clearer:

"And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

"In Chirst" we have been set apart. In Him we are 100% righteous. It is a finished work.

So, we see that Sabbath keeping always points to a finished & complete work!

The Sabbath is always God's 7th day. I don't question that, but the meaning we acknowledge it changes depending where we are in time.

For example, at creation it stood for a perfect and sinless creation. This is untrue now and therefore keeping it as it points to a finished work is a contradiction and legalistic.

The Sabbath as it points to redemption is where we are now. "In Christ" we stand perfect and the Sabbath points to the fact that on the 7th day God rested from His perfect work of redemption "in Christ". This will be the issue in the last days. Are we complete in Christ? Yes, the Sabbath will be an outward sign that we agree with the gospel. Are we incomplete "in Christ" and therefore must improve on what God did "in Christ"? Then in the future Sunday will become a sign of legalism and self-righteousness.

But don't kid yourself...keeping Sabbath as an unfinished work is about the same as keeping Sunday. So, you can be a SDA worshiping on the Sabbath and yet belong to Babylon.

Now, when we receive our sinless lives at the resurrection the reason we acknowledge it will once again change. At that point we have been re-created in His image. At that time it will be a finished and complete work. Until then the only valid reason for Sabbath, NC, NT observance is tied to the gospel.

Notice that the word "sanctify" is ongoing. God does not say here, "I sanctified you," but rather "I am sanctifying you" for an end result. Check out the NIV and NASB.

The Hebrew is a verbal adjective in the active voice, the Piel Participle [pipt], indicating continued action to bring about a result or fact. Ezekiel also contains a Piel Participle: "I am the Lord who sanctifies them."

Warning: you may see some translations that translate it as if it is "I sanctified you," but it is not. "Sanctfy" is present, continued action. That is, God continually sets us apart for Himself, because it is not a once in a life-time event but must be done continually.



Good point: two kinds of sanctification spoken of in the Bible: one already done the moment we come to Christ, and the other whereby we grow in grace as we walk each day in the Spirit. Both kinds of sanctification are necessary.



Ok, those are some good points, but why don't you also quote Hebrews 2: 11? It shows that there is also a process of sanctification that is ongoing in the Christian's life, speaking of those "who are are being sanctified." We can't say, biblically, then, that all sanctification is a finished work. Christians are set apart for Christ's work the moment they put faith in Christ, but there is then the process whereby the Spirit works in our lives to make us in actuality what God has declared us to be.

For instance, when a smoker comes to Christ, God declares him righteous, as if he is not smoking. At that moment he is set apart for the worship and service of God.

But God does something even more amazing. He sends the Spirit to live in that man and give him the power to stop smoking. When a man who likes pornography comes to Christ, He is declared righteous. He has in his account all the righteousness of Christ. But then he also has the Spirit who gives him the power to reject the pornography and live a pure life for God. That is a part of the process of sanctification.

I agree with much that you've said, but I can't agree with the following:



1) The Sabbath reminds us of the fact that God originally made the world perfect and that He will again have a perfect world in which He is inviting us to live with Him throughout all eternity. So, yes, while the Sabbath points to two perfect worlds-- or "rests" (Heb. 3 and 4)-- it does not lose all meaning simply because we live in an imperfect world BETWEEN those perfect worlds. It is still a pointer or reminder of God's rest in the past which He called us to participate in and of God's rest in the future, to which we are also summoned. In BETWEEN those two perfect "rests," we have the "rest" in Jesus, which won't be fulfilled or fully realized until Christ's return. Until then, the Sabbath is weekly reminder of the sabbath of rest we will experience in heaven and in an Eden restored.

2) Since the Sabbath will be sign of a completed and perfect sanctification in the future, does that mean the Sabbath cannot be a sign of an on-going process of sanctification in the present?

3) There are at least two kinds of sanctification spoken of in the Bible as regards people: a) the sanctification that takes place instantaneously, as you've already mentioned; and b) the sanctification that is in process. It goes on every day of our lives, as we gain more knowledge and faith, and as we become more conformed by God's grace and Spirit to the lovely character of Christ. I've already referred to Hebrews 2: 11.