Actually I agree with the main gist of your post. But I think the question was posed just in order to discuss what our attitude ought to be toward the pope if he were to have any intention of visiting the GC. Not that anyone in the church believes that he would, but should we welcome him if he were to put in an appearance there?

You're right about the pope's intention in coming to the US and the White House.

The Adventist leader in the picture you are referring to is BB Beach. See: http://endrtimes.blogspot.com/2008/04/bb-beach-wcc-easter-worship-1997.html

I personally believe it was a mistake for him to do what he did-- giving the pope a medal. But we have to understand that while the Catholic and papal system are the first power described in Rev. 13, individuals in that system may be perfectly sincere Christians, and hence they ought to be welcomed into our meetings to learn what we believe. That is my own personal belief.

**GP**

Did you see the freakin' amount of money that was spent to pretty up all the places the pope went? I saw a news item on just the carpeting that was made brand new for him to walk on. OUTRAGEOUS! The only truely interesting part was that the carpet was made by a company run by the son of holocaust camp survivors.

Amelia,

You should check out how much money White house spends on some of their foreign visits. For example, for a week trip to China... Clinton spent over $20 mil . If that's not outrageous, I'm not sure what it :).

I'm sure that Pope gets his fair share of perks too. I think that we should not get caught up criticizing individuals in the system. One of my catholic friends wrote me

"Watched the Pope on Sunday. It was very moving and inspirational and
I'm sure millions were blessed by this Godly, humble man."

It's kind of hard to get our message through to people who's hero is our foe. It's hard to kill your own children so to speak.

But how much did China spend on Stuff for the Clinton visit?

I'm sorry, but all that money for new carpets for the pope to walk on and a one time use at that. BLEH!

BB Beach, his job is to act as liason between this church and other churches. So he was within the framework of his work to greet the pope and give him a medal.

You are correct.

This story does get blown way out of proportion. People wrongly assume that giving the pope a medal was an attempt to somehow honor him like giving him an Olympic medal. What was given was more of a memento or commemorative coin, which PARL gives out to a variety of people. There was no public ceremony and Dr. Beach was a part of an informal delegation of representatives of a variety of other denominations that briefly met with the pope. I have one of the medals that I asked for and got so I could see what it looked like. I don't have it with me at the moment but from memory, one side has a picture of the second coming and the other side the bible and ten commandments with the 4th highlighted. In short, it is a witness of the SDA Church and what it stands for. I believe Dr. Beach also gave him one of our books as well.

This sort of liaison work with leaders of other denominations is very much in harmony with recommendations of EGW. She says that our pastors should meet with the pastors of other denominations.

Tom

Tom

We should be kind and thoughtful and even loving toward the pope-- but "loving" means being truthful and honest with him. It does not mean flattering him or telling him smooth things or giving him a medal in order to show him "honor," or high respect or esteem. These actions have great significance and they are interpreted as such by the Vatican. They have great experience in diplomacy-- over 1500 years of it-- and they understand what these things point to. Words and actions have meaning.

You say we gave him the medal in order to "somehow honor" the pope.

Here is what "honor" means:

high respect, esteem, an exalted position, confer as a distinction, regard with great respect; fulfill an obligation, honor implies acknowledgment of a person's right to such respect;Homage is honor with praise or tributes added, and it connotes a more worshipful attitude;Reverence combines profound respect with love or devotion, while deference suggests courteous regard for a superior, often by yielding to the person's status or wishes. Obeisance is a show of honor or reverence by an act or gesture of submission or humility.

Which one of those define what we were attempting to show the pope when we gave him the medal? He no doubt took it to signify the church is joining those who do him and his office "homage," or acknowledge his right to such respect.

But the church which teaches that the papacy is the antichrist system, a great part of "Babylon," and responsible for millions of deaths, has no business giving "honor," or showing high respect, to the head of that false system, addressing him as "HOLY FATHER."

Here is the medal given to the pope, and in another post I will give the official exchanges that took place between the SDA representative and the pope.


A GOLD MEDAL PRESENTED TO THE POPE (THE MAN OF SIN)
Beach presented the Pope with a conference-issued gold medal. The 8-11-77 Review said it was a “symbol of the Seventh-day Adventist church.” It was felt that it was of interest to meet with the man who is the religious leader of some 700 million people….[Beach] gave him one of the medallions that…are given from time to time to statesmen.

You can see the medal on this link: http://www.calltorepent.com/beach-1977

There are several items on this gold medal which are designed to please the pope.
1. Christ is in a Catholic stance, like the Vatican painting by Francis de Assisi, and idols. His beard is forked.
2. This Christ has no crown on his head. The one in Revelation 19:12 does.
3. It appears that Jesus is standing on the summit of a mountain like Satan will when personating Christ. The true Christ will not touch the earth when he returns.
4. There is a cloud with nine lightning bolts extending from it, just as mystery religions and the medieval papacy used. It was a symbol of Satan in the mysteries.
5. There are eight angels. Eight is the symbol of the sun day.
6. The angels are shown facing toward and worshiping Christ, after he has arrived on earth. (They should be shown as facing the earth with Jesus as they come toward it.)
7. The Christ in Rev. 1:16 has seven stars in his hand. This Christ has six on each side.
8. The Maltese cross is a Vatican symbol. Typically, this has four equal rays flowing outward from a central sun. Each ray expands in width as it radiates outward and terminates in two horns, producing an eight-pointed cross. It is thus a sun symbol in two ways (the radiating sun, and the eight points.)
9. THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT READS THE SAME WAY THE PAPACY ATTEMPTED TO CHANGE IT–the way the third commandment is quoted in the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine. When the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath Commandment, what did they change it to? They used the exact wording given on the back of the gold medal.

THE POPE’S GREETING: Under the title, “Seeking the Objectives of Complete Unity”, a Catholic newspaper reported this: “After the general audience of Wednesday, the 18th inst., the Holy Father received the participants of the Conference of Secretaries of World Confessional Families. The group was accompanied by Bishop John Howe, General Secretary of the Anglican Consultative Council, and Mr. B. B. Beach, General Secretary of the Seventh-day Adventists. This was the first time that representatives of the Seventh-day Adventists met the Pope. To commemorate this significant moment, they offered an artistic gold medal to the Holy Father.

The Holy Father directed the following discourse to them:

Dear brethren in Christ: We rejoice to be able to receive such an important group today, and we welcome you to Peter’s See.

In you we greet the representatives of a considerable portion of the Christian people, and through you we send our wishes of grace and peace in the Lord to your Confessional Families. [Beach represented the whole church!]

We are happy to express, in your presence, our common faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God [the Christ in immaculate flesh], the only Mediator with the Father, the Saviour of the world. Yes, brethren, together with the Apostle Peter, we proclaim that Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12.

On her part, the Catholic Church is solemnly engaged, through Vatican Council II, in an ecumenism based on increased fidelity to Christ the Lord and on heart conversion. At the same time, she is conscious that nothing is more alien to ecumenism than that false irenicism [methods of securing unity among Christians or harmony and union among the churches; - called also Irenical theology] that would harm the Catholic doctrine and obscure its genuine and precise meaning.

Reinforced by the power of the word of God, let us therefore pursue, despite all difficulties, the objective of full unity in Christ and in the Church.
And, with humbleness and love, let us direct our thoughts and our hopes to our Lord Jesus Christ. Glory be given to Him, as well as to the Father and to the Holy Spirit, for ever and ever.” Osservatore Romano (Catholic paper, Portuguese edition), May 29, 1977.

B.B. BEACH’S RESPONSE: Another Catholic newspaper reported this: The Confer-ence of Secretaries of World Confessional Families was organized twenty years ago, and its founder was the First Secretary of the Anglican Advisory Council, Bishop John Howe. The present Secretary of the Conference and at the same time the First Secretary of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, Mr. Beach, made a statement at the Vatican Radio emphasizing the impor-tance of this first meeting of Adventists with the Pope. Word for word, this is what he said: “It was a great honor for me, as the Secretary of the Conference, to be present here in Rome, in audience with the Holy Father. On this occasion I presented to the Pope a book about the world-wide work of the Adventist Church.” Glas Koncila (Catholic paper in Yugoslavia), June 5, 1977.

B. B. Beach, a Seventh-day Adventist, representing the Seventh-day Adventist church, in an interview over Vatican radio used the term “Holy Father” in referring to the Pope, the representative of the beast of Rev. 13 and 14!


“It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the papacy.” Ellen White, Signs, Feb. 19, 1894.