Oops I meant to say: "In my opinion, Joh, any website that exists for pointing out the corporate sins of the denomination, would not be a site I would choose to frequent"

Sorry for the typos.

Without a doubt. As for JPII, his goal was world domination for the papacy. Regarding the U.S. and the papacy, he had these words to say just before coming to the Capitol in 1984:

"Precisely because we are defenseless, we have a special right to influence those who wield the sword of authority. It is well known that in the field of political action, as elsewhere, not everything is accomplished by the sword. There are deeper reasons, and stronger laws to which nations and kings are accountable. We come before those in authority as spokesmen for the moral order."

That fits in very well with Rev. 13:11 ff.

Give the guy a medal? Yeah, right. As for Herr Ratzinger, do you think his purposes are different? He has been working Western Europe, seeking to bring Europe back to the fold, and realizing Adenauer's dream of a Christian Europe. Adenauer, after all, saw Germany in historic terms as the defender of Christendom, going back to the Middle Ages. He sought a holy alliance between the Catholic countries, Germany, France, Benelux, etc. That is Ratzinger's dream. And I believe it will happen. I see good reason to believe that the prophetic picture unfolded in the Great Controversy will come to pass under this pope.

Welcome this guy at the GC and pat him on the back? Would you welcome one who is dedicated to your destruction, who denies the validity of your Christian beliefs and experience, and who could well be the 'moral authority' which influences the U.S. government to order your death? I woudln't think so.

Dave

But Dave ... Although The Pope has declared that we Christians do not have salvation unless we go through HIM ... he still wants to be our friends. I think that is what the visit is saying. So, we as 'lost sinners' ... we should at least try to be kind to him. After all ... we ARE suppose to love our enemies.

Was any of the information about the medal and what occurred in the meeting between the pope and BB Beach incorrect as far as you've been able to determine?

Should those who represent us as Seventh-day Adventists be referring to the bishop of Rome as "Holy Father"? Should they (we) be giving the bishop of Rome medals which portray the Ten Commandments in the truncated form in which they occur in the Catholic catechism?

Yes, we are to love our enemies. But that means real love, not the love that the world has, but the love that God has, which is based on truth and righteousness and not on flattery and deceit. That is not genuine love. It's not love that leads a Seventh-day Adventist to call the pope "Holy Father."

What did you find inaccurate in either the depiction of the medal or in the record of what was said by both the pope and B.B. Beach, which I posted?

What was inaccurate in the depiction of the medal or in the record of what was said between the pope and B.B. Beach?

Did B.B. Beach give the pope a medal depicting the Ten Commandments in the truncated form in which it occurs in the Catholic catechism? Did B.B. Beach call the pope "Holy Father"?

It's unreasonable to think that the the vatican interpreted B.B. Beach's visit and the giving of a medal as honoring the SDA church. If you look carefully at the medal, it is not one that has anything to do with Seventh-day Adventism. The Ten Commandments are never written in that form by SDAs unless they are showing how the fourth commandment is written in the Catholic catechism. It just happens that the way Jesus is portrayed on the medal is a typically catholic stance. These and other things on the medal are not coincidental.

I'd like to know what other people this same medal was given to prior to its being given to the pope. Do you know?

When people jump to conclusions about WHY things are done they way they are, and try to pick apart every single picture or detail of something and try to ascribe meaning to it, sure they can find something to complain about.
1. One can make a complete communist out of a democratic president too, if one chopps up what they have said and glue it back together.
2. An artist may draw a picture with a group of angels, never thinking, for instance that it is "wrong" to have 4 verses 8 versus 12 angels, not because it has some deep meaning.
3. The mere source of your many points is a source which is highly critical of the church and God is not the accuser of the brethern .

Just my 2 cents.

John's Comment: If you look carefully at the medal, it is not one that has anything to do with Seventh-day Adventism. The Ten Commandments are never written in that form by SDAs unless they are showing how the fourth commandment is written in the Catholic catechism.

Taylor's Comments: How, are they supposed to get the ENTIRE 10 commandments, or even the 4th on such a small medal? Not only does the medal remind people of the Sabbath that God is the creator


John's Comment: It just happens that the way Jesus is portrayed on the medal is a typically catholic stance. These and other things on the medal are not coincidental.

Taylor's Comments: With all due respect you can't judge whether it is coicidental or not. You have not met the person who designed it, or walked in their shoes. You have no idea if it is "purposful" or "coincidental". There are many many artists renditions of Jesus, some are more beautiful than others, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and what is beautiful to you may not be to another person.

My point simply is this, when one can't read the mind of another it is impossible to judge the motives of their heart. It is a job left up to God.

Instead of focusing on what is "wrong" with our church we should be out spending our entire energies telling others about Jesus and preparing to meet God. Let God do the judging. If it the motivation of the GC is a cynical as you seem to think, God will judge it accordingly. However, I also know that we have been counseled at the Adventist church will "make it through to the other shore" and will appear to fall but will not fall. Hence I choose to not focus on any "trembelings" in my church, if they are "tremblings" I choose to focus on Jesus and the salvation of souls as in the end that will be all that matters.