Maybe I just don't know where to look. But I've never seen weird Baptist offshoot sects. Or strange Presbyterian offshoot cults.

Ever heard of Jim Jones? What "produced" him?

Check out this info:

"Jones began his own church, named the Community Unity Church (after being exposed to the Seventh-day Baptist church). In 1955, he renamed it the church Wings of Deliverance, and later that year the Peoples Temple Full Gospel Church. In 1959 the church joined the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), and Jones renamed it the Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel. Jones sold pet monkeys door-to-door to raise the money to fund his church.

Jones purported to preach what he called "apostolic socialism." In doing so, the Temple openly preached to established members that "relgion is an opiate of the people." Accordingly, "those who remained drugged with the opiate of religion had to be brought to enlightenment -- socialism." In that regard, Jones also openly stated that he "took the church and used the church to bring people to atheism." Jones often mixed those concepts, such as preaching that "If you're born in this church, this socialist revolution, you're not born in sin. If you're born in capitalist America, racist America, fascist America, then you're born in sin. But if you're born in socialism, you're not born in sin."

In 1961, Jones helped to integrate churches, restaurants, the telephone company, the police department, a theater, an amusement park, and the Methodist Hospital and became the executive director of the Indianapolis Human Rights Commission.

Jones received considerable criticism in Indiana for his integrationist views. In 1965, Jones left Indiana, moving the Peoples Temple to Redwood Valley, California based, in part, on Jones' belief that it would be a more safe location if nuclear war were to occur.

Jones also authored a booklet he would distribute in the Temple titled "The Letter Killeth" pointing out what he felt were the contradictions, absurdities, and atrocities in the Bible, but also stating that the Bible contained great truths. He was particularly fascinated with his ability to manipulate people. Jones perfected his craft and was very skilled in his new found talent. He claimed to be an incarnation of Jesus, Akhenaten, the Buddha, Lenin, and Father Divine and performed supposed miracle healings to attract new converts. Members of Jones' church called him "Father" and believed their movement was the solution to the problems of society; many did not distinguish Jones from the movement.

Unlike most other figures deemed as cult leaders, Jones enjoyed public support and contact with some of the highest level politicians in the United States. For example, in the heat of the 1976 Presidential Campaign, Jones met with Vice Presidential Candidate Walter Mondale on his campaign plane. Likewise, First Lady Rosalynn Carter personally met Jones for a private dinner at the Stanford Court Hotel. Mrs. Carter later called Jones personally. In the 1976 grand opening of the San Francisco Democratic Party Headquarters, Jones packed the audience with Temple members and garnered louder applause when he spoke than Mrs. Carter. Governor Jerry Brown, Lieutenant Govenor Mervyn Dymally and Assemblyman Willie Brown, among others, attended a large testimonial dinner in Jim Jones' honor in September of 1976. At that dinner, Willie Brown referred to Jone as "a combination of Martin King, Angela Davis, Albert Einstein, and Chairman Mao." Both Assemblyman Willie Brown and Governor Jerry Brown attended Temple services. After the Peoples Temple participation was instrumental in the Mayoral election victory of George Moscone in 1975, Moscone appointed Jones as the Chairman of the San Francisco Housing Commission."

Later, of course, Jones would go on to be directly responsible for the murder of hundreds of men, women, and children.

Oh I remember Jim Jones very well. I just didn't know his religious status prior to his cult creation. Same for those alien believer people and the comet people. I think some of these kooks create a cult long after being exposed to a religion, maybe as a child. Some I believe are just wacky from the start.

The Liberty Blog

A Texas Sized Mess!

By Alan J. Reinach
May 1, 2008

Texas is a big state with an even bigger ego, and now it has a legal mess to match. Everyone is familiar with the incursion of government officials into the Yearning For Zion compound of the Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. We all know that 413 children [and counting] were removed ostensibly for their own protection, and that the legal games have begun. Many questions are being asked about religious freedom, and whether the rights of the church members were violated.

http://www.religiousliberty.info/blog/?p=73

To me its quite obvious that Ellen and James White were making a lot of it up as they went. I don't believe it was a pre-meditated or even conscious process, but one that grew out of the need to make something meaningful out of their extreme commitment to the idea of a second coming.

What makes the most sense to me is that the Old Testament was put together in the 6th century BC from various documents that had been collected and rewritten to blend Egyptian Babylonian and Semitic religious belief systems.

I think Daniel Dennet's work on memes has some insights into religious beliefs and processes. You can see this on the following video

Daniel Dennett & Bill Moyers

If one believes that the OT was put together by mere humans alone, how does one explain the prophecies? How about Obadiah, for instance, written about the Edomites? Or Deut.28? Or Ezekiel 26?-- to mention just a few.

Back to the original topic -- I find it interesting that the group in Texas is styled a "sect" while the group in New Mexico is called a "cult." I guess we can be thankful for that.

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In other words not only are the writings of EGW made up (even if not intentional) and her messages are not for us (i.e. they are simply suggestions made by a human without God's inpiring her, or giving her visions.) And since the Bible was put together and written by humans it is also open to interpretation of what is valid or not valid? I.E. from a written perspective there is no written absolutes, no black and white, no "thus saith the Lord"? So the anchor of life, then, the absolute truth, is simply what is "truth" for each person...based on our experiences, what works for us and how we feel about things or how we logically see things, or what scientists tell us? If that is the case, then isn't our knowledge based strictly on human reasoning?

It was the idea of "thus saith the Lord" that got both Wayne Bent and the members of this cult in trouble. Once you give your reasoning away to a book or a person, you become vulnerable to ignoring the cause and effect right in front of you.



Well unless you have another way of thinking and understanding while NOT using your brain, this is really all we have.

Written language is a human technology and essentially has been unavailable to the majority of people on the planet for most of its history, so I think the reliance on writing is really a worship of writing itself.



The anchor of life, if there is such a thing, is simply what we each make up in our minds. We live in a deeply mysterious world and anyone who claims they know the mind of God or can interpret the mind of God based on a holy book to the extent that they believe everyone should see God in that way is exaggerating their own abilities.

With 33,000 different versions of Christianity there is simply no evidence that any one view of even Christianity is the "right" one, let alone God's view.

As I understand Wayne Bent, he took Ellen White's writings very seriously and when she states that we need to perfect our characters before the close of probation, he took that very literally.

Believing that it was possible he gathered a group of people with him that came to believe the same way, but determining if you have a perfect character without being arrogant is an impossible task.

One solution to this would be for him to actually become god and he certainly had a following that were quite willing to go along with this because it met both of their needs. If Wayne was Jesus then that confirmed that he had perfected his character and if the followers were part of the inside circle then they too must be on the fast track for perfect characters.

As I listened to their story it became quite evident that much of Wayne Bent as the messiah was created by his own followers as much as it was created by him.

While I did not go off to the desert to be with a cult, I did take Ellen White very seriously and I took the Bible very seriously. I read both of them very literally and within the culture of Adventism that I grew up with, the end of the world was a very real thing. This created a series of "memes" that made life a fearful daily ordeal for me. I recognize this state in almost any Christian church I have attended within some or most of the members.

This is a very harmful and toxic belief system that passes for "good" within any number of religious organizations. And it is particularly prevalent within organizations that claim to know the truth and seek to convince or impose their view on the world. And with Adventism it was and is seen as a life or death issue. This brings a whole other level of intensity that, for some people, is life threatening in the form of morbid depression or a life of fear and shame.

Attracts? Sorry, Lynndell if I tent to disagree with you...I think that there is more PRODUCTION than attraction...But you are correct in that there are those who are attracted and then go off the deep end...I went to wildwood, and found many a home grown adventist and few converted adventist. And yes, I am NOT home grown, but I have always been aware of Adventism because I had grandparents who were SDA, and my dad grew up SDA.

I kinda know the problem...We rely much on the word and suspend our thinking minds...that we take it an honor to have faith in something that we can not see. We rely on trust/faith so much that it is the path to travel and rely on EGW writings that we forget that there is some rational thinking that WE must do....

There is also an experience with the Word that is needful, and humbling and wonderful. And it is an experience that needs to be shared with fellow believers, and confirmed by the Word of God. Not exactly what Wayne Bents followers were doing.....

Oh well, I go off on the deep end.