"I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot~! Rev.3:15

When we're still in this peaceful time and without persecution yet, it should be the best decision for the official General Conference of SDA for not giving any [honoring] medal to Pope.

In case the GC decided not to give a medal to the "holy father", would that be troubling us?

Sooner or later, the storm and persecution shall come anyway...whether or not our SDA leaders in GC ever gave the honoring medal(s) to Pope.

But as for today, with or without any medal from GC, you can 100% guarantee that the Pope must keep saying,

"Peace...peace...peace"

Unfortunately, giving the medal to Pope is something like a certification or a licence for elimination to any Bible study related to the mark of the beast.

Yes, we can almost guarantee that right now--first of all in the GC office--it is illegal to study the Daniel and Revelation prophecy especially Revelation 13 and the mark of the beast in the name of "don't be fanatic" or "stop being extremist"

But the bad new is, some of our leaders and members have an immediate conclusion that by not giving medal to pope is equal to sarcastic, rude and not polite!

Last time GC gave the medal but next month or so GC would have a Daniel and Revelation Seminar? Oh, C'mon...what a double face! Do you think the GC will sponsor any Prophecy seminar after giving a medal to the top of the movie star in the Prophecy seminar?

Or by the way, please, at least just go to La Sierra University, Pacific Union College, Loma Linda or some others of our Univ./colleges...Do you still NOT believe that they're not denying their religion but at the same time it's really illegal for those schools to proclaim the Three Angels' Messages, especially about the beast power in the name of "love your enemies", "don't be so extreme, please" or "take it easy" ???

Let's focus on Jesus and His love.
But this means that we must keep silent about the Present Truth,
or
Rebuking them with honor, respect and love.

The choice is yours.


Though your friends or even your pastor attack you as "Fanatics" or "Extremists"... again, let's focus on Jesus who warns us:
"I could wish you were cold or hot!"

Since He already said about this(cold/hot/lukewarm), so if He were lives today, do you think that the same Jesus would agree when the Pope was given a medal by His Church's leaders?

What do you think?

It's up to you to attack or accused anybody here or even Jesus Himself as a "Fanatic" or "Extremist" but let's see what's in your hearts about the Rev 3:15.

What do I think? I think I will send a large donation to Amazing Facts.




(done)

A refutation of an argument is not a personal attack. I said that such a comparison as was made is invalid because it is like comparing apples and oranges. I am dealing with the argument, which would be the same no matter who makes it.

Yes, I thought it was obvious he was saying this, but to what purpose? Perhaps this was simply his way of restating what he has stated already many times before.

I don't know of anyone who necessarily agrees with everything on any website, so to make a comparison between our treatment of a website and our treatment of Ellen White seems to me to be not terribly relevant to anything.

You are making some heavy handed assumptions without factoring in some pragmatic ideas into your equations...

Jesus said, "If you have ought with your brother," make peace with him before you sacrifice. It's a good principle. Attempting to make peace between 2 religions is the duty of the leadership as well as between 2 individuals. It's pragmatic, and just a good idea. Making overt friendship overtones indicates that past differences do not make a difference when it comes to friendship. It allows God to smight the conscience of others to help you in times of trouble.

In the case of using the term "Holy Father" for the pope...While that maybe his title, I don't have to refer to it. For example, there are pastors in other religions who are called "Reverend". I happen to take offense to this, as I don't believe anyone should be considered revered/sacred. It doesn't mean that I can not call him "pastor" though. I still give the same respect for the title of his office. The pope is a man, not only with a religious office, but also with a leadership office as well. By giving a metal to a leader, and a man, the GC never revered the 'Holy Father" aspect of the Pope.



Absolutely not so....You never know what is going to be the seed that will cause someone to study. It could be the interaction of a friend, something from a book, something on tv...The Holy Spirit uses any and all to impress the person. All this medal did was validate in pictorial form, our beliefs. It was no "certification" nor "license" for anything. It was a witnessing tool given to someone who is not aquainted with our beliefs.

Oh, and while I am at it, I will reinterate with you what a vitriolic catholic priest said to me- "You think you SDAs are number one on the Pope's subversive list. I got news for you. You are not on the radar." and if you want confirmation of this, PM Wayne V. He was on the same site as I was.



I remember HMS Richards saying, "Jesus Freaks? Yes, I think we should have more of them!" And this was said to an SDA congregation...

I have no problem with what Jesus has said. I do have a problem with your vitrolic implications though. I do have a problem that the GC is lazy, not willing to witness, not willing to do the right thing...I have my problems with them, but it is not from witnessing, nor ceasing the witnessing program.

Anyways, just thought you should know that I do have some problems with your post...

The Church is a hospital for Sinners not a Country Club for Saints.

There will ALWAYS be problems in our church. But to make blanket statements about it being illegal to study Daniel and Revelation at the GC is rediculous. In no way has that ever been true, nor is it true currently.

I know many people personally who work at the GC and they are deeply Bible believing and evangelism focused. There is a lot of misinformion and gossip about our church leaders and some don't see or don't know about the passion with which the church leaders I know love the truth and they love to tell others about it. Are they all in their spiritual walk where they should be? I would not want to judge that but I know that since all of us have growing to do that no one person has "arrived". If there are tares (weeds) in our church it will become obvious when Jesus comes back for his harvest. In the mean time we need to be preparing as many as possible for the harvest, not yanking up weeds, thus damanaging the young plants around those weeds.

However, I do agree that the pope is going to do what he is going to do no matter whether we give him a gift or not.

There are problems in our SDA schools but there is an incredible lot of good going on in our SDA schools, that is true in some cases more than others but I think it helps us to focus on what is good, not on what is bad. Further, if we help to inspire, provide opportunities for young people to get to know Jesus and the truths in the Bible. If we help them have opportunities to share this message with others, then we can encourage spiritual growth at our schools and in our churches. It is far easier to attract bees to honey than with vinegar. Time should be spent modeling and inspiring what is right.

Hi Neil D,

Relax, calm down and don't get mad at me.

Otherwise your posting here would probably reflecting 98.5% of liberal Adventists that always focusing on grace and love (nothing wrong with this) and keep trying to embrace and have open dialogue with other faith such as Buddhist, Moslem, Catholic, Hindu, etc (which is also very very good for real)...

...But at the same time those 98.5% liberal Adventist most of the time never show their love nor try to embrace the conservative Adventists and have an open dialogue with their conservative brethren as they always do with the other faith.

That's why it's not too much surprise when a non-Christian magazine made their conclusion and opinion about Adventists by declaring that, "Liberal Adventists has a special doctrine: love your enemies by always expressing bitter hatred toward conservative Adventists."

I'm just hoping that they are wrong on their conclusion!

Gee, if I came accross mad, I wonder how I come across when I am really mad...




Having been in the midst of some very conservative adventist 'bretheren', whose ultra conservative speach usually starts out with "You know Brother Neil, ..." and procedes to tell me my sins authoritatively as if they are intimately aquainted with them..Like they are God's special prophet, something just below EGW. Very painful, very rude and certainly not in keeping with how I have treated them. And most of the individuals who call themselves conservatives, have caused some major dysfunctional relationship crisis', either with in the church family or within thier own familys.

Most of those 'liberal brothern" that I am aquainted with, usually don't have contact with the conservative SDAs due to the dysfunctional hurts that have been caused.



I would like to see the quote, if you don't mind....Just curious who non-Christian magazine that is aquainted with Adventist so much that they know the conservative/liberal and the relationships within the church.



Reread what I have written, if you think I have attacked you. I described YOUR POSTS, not you...So, dont get let birthday, panties and this post creep up on you....

You might come across like a grown up BAT-BOY

Since the Church is a hospital for Sinners not a Country Club for Saints, that's why we need to give a continuous Bible study to everybody... including to the Pope. When we have time to give medal to Pope (this should be arranged by an appointment, of course), then, is it impossible to give him a Bible Study?

Oh by the way, if you get a bad new from TV or Newspaper, don't get mad or blame your TV or the Newspaper. Just focus on what's on the news and the information given.

And now speaking of their rejection of the Three Angels' Messages, I just signaling the facts but you can wisely check by yourself directly to the GC office or at least gain some infos to our certain Univ/colleges especially here in North America or in W.Europe.

Special arrangement or future plan by lay members or students for Daniel and Revelation seminars usually being refused by the official Board Members-believe it or not.

You probably still don't believe the facts of what's happening even in our Church's top leaders but let's do this way: Do you still remember what was the official logo of the SDA? Yes. The logo was a simple picture of the Three Angels.

But what's the official logo today? Have you ever find an official written statement of why the GC change it? Why/what do think?

After all, let's all keep working on our faith no matter how bad our church could be. I believe Jesus Christ still as a captain of His ship. Just don't jump to the sea or move to other ships.

I'm a Seventh-day Adventist not because I am better that others, but because the Lord has given me a special message to every nation, kindred, tongue and people just before the close of probation.

Let's do it with a loud voice. Not by compromising--if you want!