I thought I had responded to this question. Looks like my post was deleted!!! I don't see why it should have been and yet i can't find it!!! Any thought?

As to Job being accused of being a self-righteous man, that coudn't be further from the truth. Only by misunderstanding the book of Job could one draw such a conclusion.

"Job was sorely afflicted, and his friends sought to make him acknowledge that his suffering was the result of sin (self-righteousness), and cause him to feel under condemnation. They represented his case as that of a great sinner; but the Lord rebuked them for their judgment of His faithful servant." E.G. White, Bible Commmentary, Vol.3,p.1140.

"The disciples of Christ could not understand the mystery of His mission no more than the friends of Job could understand his humiliation and suffering." Desire of Ages, p.88.

"Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness, says the Lord God." "Their righteousness is of Me." Ezekiel 14:14; Isaiah 54:17.

"There is wickedness in our world, but all the suffering is not the result of a perverted course of action. Job is brought distinctly before us as a man whom the Lord allowed Satan to afflict. The enemy stripped him of all he possessed; his family ties were broken; his children were taken from him. For a time his body was covered with loathsome sores, and he suffered greatly. His friends came to comfort him, but they tried to make him see that he was responsible, by his sinful course, for his afflictions. But he defended himself, and denied the charge, declaring, Miserable comforters are ye all. By seeking to make him guilty before God, and deserving of His punishment, they brought a grievous test upon him, and represented God in a false light; but Job did not swerve from his loyalty, and God rewarded His faithful servant." E.G. White, Bible Commentary, Vol.3, p.1140.

Job was a righteous man. His righteousness was from the Lord and Christ's righteousness always leads to repentance, from repentance to repentance.

"At every advance step in Christian experience our repentance will deepen." C.O.L.162.

sky

The question is not whether Job was a sinful human being. We know he was sinful and Job was also very well aware that he was sinful (see Job 7: 20, 21). The question, then, is whether Job was a righteous man. The Bible very plainly says that Job was righteous. If he wasn't, then the book fails in one of its primary themes, which is to explain why God allows righteous people to suffer.

Are we saying, then,-- and does the book teach-- that Job was sinless and had no need of forgiveness? No, of course not.

To say that Job was a righteous man is not to say that Job was perfectly righteous before the law of God, nor is it saying that Job was earning salvation by works of the law. God is not lying, nor is He simply giving Job's mistaken viewpoint, when He calls Job "a perfect and upright man, one who fears God, and shuns evil." Job was indeed all of these, and God had confidence in Job. When tested, God knew that Job's faith would grow even stronger. And Job did not let God down.

To say that Job was "blameless" does not mean Job was sinless or that he had no need of God's forgiveness. Remember that Paul says that deacons are to be "blameless," yet it obviously does not mean deacons must be without sin (compare 1 Tim. 3: 10; Titus 1:6,7; and 1 John 1: 8-10).

i was able to retrieve my post. Here it is.

QUOTE
> I was reading Job in studying for the lesson one day and as I
came across the first chapter, and first verse it dawned on me that
Job wasnt sinless but was called "blameless" and "upright". What made
Job "blameless" and "upright" before God? Was it from faith and his
belief in God that he is called this or because he did what
was 'right before God', or is it like Justifcation/ Sanctification,
that one gives birth to the other?
>
> ************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* ******
>
> dear brother or sister, by reading Job 23:11,12, we get a pretty
good glimpse of the secret of his life of victory.
>
> "My foot kept His way and not turned aside. I have not departed
from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured the words of His
mouth more than my necessary food."
>
> The Psalmist said, "The law of Your mouth is better to me than
thousands of skekels of gold and silver." 119:72. "I will run in the
way of Your commandments. " Ps.119:32.
>
> The secret is to receive the law which was engraved on stones and
later written with ink as the voice of God speaking to the soul in
promise. "Receive, I pray thee, the law from His mouth." Job 22:22.
>
> "The ten precepts of the greatest love ever presented to men is the
voice of God speaking to the soul in promise. There is not a negative
in that law although it may appear thus." E.G. White, 1 B.C.1105.
>
> The voice of God imparts power, it begets life! Every command that
proceeds out of the mouth of God is the promise of the Spirit to
fulfill every jot and tittle of what is expressed in that
commandment. Received as such it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit!
Notice the following:
>
> "The word of God is the seed. Every seed has in itself a
germinating principle. In it the life of the plant is enfolded. So
there is life in God's word. Christ says, 'The words that I SPEAK
unto you, they are Spirit and they are life.' John 6:63. In every
command and in every promise of the word of God is the power, the
very life of God, by which the command may be fulfilled and the
promise realized. He who by faith receives the word is receiving the
very life and character of God." Christ's Object Lessons, p.38.
>
> The Lord says, "My word shall accomplish that which I please"
(Isa.55:11) in the lives of those who are willing to be as submissive
to My voice as is the inanimate creation.
>
> "Only he who receives the Scriptures as the voice of God speaking
to himself is a true learner." C.O.L.59.
>
> "He awakens me morning by morning. He awakens my ear, to hear as
the learned. The Lord God has opened my ear." Isaiah 50:4,5.
>
> "Incline your ear, come to Me, hear, and your soul shall live."
Isaiah 55:3.
>
> On account of the merits of His infinite sacrifice the Lord has
earned every right in the controversy between Him and Satan to speak
to us wonderful words of life, even life everlasting. "I know that
His commandment is everlasting life." John 12:50.
>
> Please read Isaiah 48:18 and Psalm 119:93,50.
>
> Hope this helped somewhat!
>
> sky

The only true faith which works is the faith that comes by hearing the voice of God speaking to us in the Scriptures, expecting that word to do what it says and depending upon that word and that word only to accomplish what is expressed in that word. "My word shall accomplish that which I please." Isaiah 55;11. "When you received the word which you heard from us, you did not receive it as the word of men but as it is in truth the word of God which effectively works in you that believe." 1 Thess.2;13.

We must rely wholly upon "the word of His grace." Acts 20:32. The apostle Paul speaks of "the Gospel of the grace of God." verse 24. "And now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified." Notice these words: "By the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all (other apostles) , yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." 1 Cor.15:10.

In 1 Timothy 1:14 the same apostle Paul says, "And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus." The apostle Paul had "the true grace," (1 Peter 5:12) that is, "the grace that brings salvation to all men". Titus 2:11. This grace is immediately with all and upon all who submit to the commandment of the everlasting God: "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." Romans 16:24,25. This is "the preaching of Jesus Christ" "for obedience to the faith." 24-26. This commandment is repeated throughout Paul's letters and is even the last verse of the Bible!

What the apostle Paul is saying is this: The same voice that called the worlds into existence, that said to the earth, "Bring forth grass" and it was so, is the same voice that speaks to us in the Scriptures. To all who are hungering and thirsting for salvation, the word of God to them is, "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all." "Grace be with you." Col.4:18. The moment we submit to the voice of God, the grace of Jesus Christ, that brings salvation, is immediately with us just as it was with the apostle Paul to help our infirmities and to form a Christian character. 1 Cor.15:10. This is "the true grace" which is "exceedingly abundant with faith and love that are in Christ Jesus." 1 Peter 5:12; 1 Tim.1:14.

Too many of us, as Mrs. White pointed out, have made the mistake of imagining that we were on probation and that we had to prove to the Lord that we were reformed before we could claim this blessing. She writes, "These dear souls may claim the blessing even now." Faith and Works, p.38. "Behold, now is the accepted time! Now is the day of salvation!" 2 Cor.6:2. "They must have His grace, the Spirit of Christ, to help their infirmities or they cannot form a Christian character." Ibid, p.38.

Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness need not wait one moment that they themselves may blot out their own sins. "They need not wait until they have made a suitable repentance" (F.W.64) before they may take hold of the grace (righteousness) of God which is in Christ Jesus. The Lord Himself has given the command:

"Grace be with you." Col.4:18. Amen!

This is "the word of His grace" which is able to build you up into an habitation of God through the Spirit and to deliver you from every evil work and to preserve you for His heavenly kingdom. See 2 Timothy 4:22,18. And this grace which is thus imparted is in like manner sustained, by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God! To Him be glory forever and ever. Amen!

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen!" Revelation 22:21.

sky

p.s. Every one of the ten commandments as spoken by Christ on Sinai or any other commandment found in the Scriptures which concerns our spiritual life, is the word of His grace to us. "It is through these promises (every command is a promise) that He imparts to us His grace and power." Ministry of Healing, p.122; 1 B.C.1105.

"Grant me Thy law graciously." Psalm 119:29. Every commandment proceeding out of the mouth of God is full of grace and truth.

God bless,

sky

"In Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love." Gal. 5:6.

With those who were in mind when this Scripture was originally written, circumcision was everything, and it was everything simply because of what it represented. And what circumcision represented to those people was works and works only. It was the greatest of all works--greater than creation itself--because, as the rabbis put it, "So great is circumcision, that but for it the Holy One, blessed be He, would not have created the world." "It is as great as all the other commandments," "equivalent to all the commandments of the law." --Farrar's "Life of Paul," chapter 22, para. 5, note; chapter 35, para 4, note.

Yet this which to them was so great, the Lord sweeps away, as with a blast, in the words, "Circumcision is nothing," and in Christ Jesus, circumcision avails nothing. And, in view of what circumcision meant to them, this was simply to say that works are nothing and in Christ Jesus works avail nothing.

Then to all the others who, in view of this, might be inclined to boast in their lack of works and thus excuse sin, the word is given with equal force: "And uncircumcision is nothing." "In Jesus Christ neither circumcision (works) nor uncircumcision (absence of works) availeth anything," which, in its connection, was simply to say that in Christ Jesus works or the absence of works is nothing and avails nothing.

So then works are nothing and the absence of works is nothing. In Christ Jesus neither works nor the lack of works avails anything.

This word of the Lord, therefore, utterly and forever excludes both classes from all merit and from all ground of merit in themselves or in anything they ever did or did not do.

And this is all as true today as ever. Today, whether persons are out of Christ or in Christ, neither works nor no works avail anything. For it is written: "Are you in Christ? Not if you do not acknowledge yourselves erring, helpless, condemned sinners. Your birth, your reputation, your wealth, your talents, your virtues, your piety, your philanthropy, or anything else in you or connected with you, will not form a bond of union between your soul and Christ." --Testimony for the Church, No. 31, pages 44, 45.

What then? Is everybody left in utter emptiness? No, no! Thank the Lord there is something which avails for all and avails forever. Though it be the everlasting truth that in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision, neither works nor no works avail anything; yet it is also the eternal truth that in Jesus Christ "Faith which works" does avail. Gal.5:6.

Notice that it is not faith and works that avail; it is "faith WHICH works." It is faith which itself is able to work and does work--it is this and this alone that avails for anybody anywhere at any time.

Faith is only of God and working; it works only the works of God. Thus he who, in Christ Jesus, has the "faith which works," has that which avails to show God manifest in the flesh, working the works of God. And thus "this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." 1 Thess.2:13.

And so, while you are in Christ, "If there is any good in you, it is wholly attributable to the mercy of the compassionate Saviour. Your connection with the church, the manner in which your brethren regard you, will be of no avail unless you believe in Christ. It is not enough to believe about Him; you must believe in Him. You must rely wholly upon His saving grace." --Id., pages 44, 45. A.T. Jones, Lessons on Faith.

In the very first verse of the book, the narrator himself also informs us that Job is "perfect and upright." It is obvious that the narrator is not being ironic but is straightforward. The Holy Spirit inspired Moses to describe Job in this way.

You apparently misunderstand the meaning of "blameless." Compare its use elsewhere: Gen. 6: 9; 17: 1; Deut. 18: 13. Check it out in the lexical aids. It refers to Job's "wholeness" toward God; that is, it tells us that Job had integrity. It doesn't mean Job was without sin.

From the book Laodicea:

...Let’s look at another case study of repentance from self-righteousness. This one may create a bit of a problem in your mind, because I want to give a nontraditional interpretation to a familiar person in the Bible. Let’s look at the story of a man who appears in the oldest book of the Bible – the book of Job.

I’ve wrestled with the book of Job for a long time. I could never see why God allowed Satan to mistreat Job so badly and why Job had to go through all those terrible crises without any purpose other than to prove to Satan that God was right. To me, that didn’t seem to be enough; the whole story somehow didn’t seem to fit with what I knew of God’s character. Then one day I was reading The Desire of Ages, and I came across these words: “The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy” (471). But Ellen White didn’t say exactly what that merciful purpose was in Job’s case. The only way I could find out was to read and study and wrestle with the book of Job for myself.

When I began studying the book closely, I discovered that Job himself had a problem. At first, it was hard to accept what I was learning, because it completely contradicted what I had always understood about Job. I had always had the picture that we get from the very first verse of the book. It say that Job, “was blameless and upright, and one who feared god and shunned evil" (Job 1:1, NKJV). This description of Job is repeated in verse 8 when God is having a dialogue with Satan. “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears god and shuns evil?” (NKJV)

And Satan replies, “Yes, but he does all this because You have built a hedge around him. Remove Your protection, and give him into my hands. You’ll see what he will do then. He will deny You and reject You. He will turn his back on You” (see verses 9-11).

So God said, “You can have him. Everything he possesses is in your power, but you can’t touch his body. You can’t kill him.” Immediately, Satan set out to destroy everything Job had – including his children (see verses 13-19). How would you react after losing your children and everything you owned? Job “tore his robe and shaved his head, and he fell to the ground and worshipped”. And he said, “naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return there. The Lord gave and the lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the lord.” (Verses 20,21, NKJV).

Job didn’t turn his back on God. He was righteous person. But this is the crucial question: Was his righteousness the righteousness of faith, or was it the righteousness of works? We need to look closely at his experience in order to determine the answer to this question, because I believe we will find in Job’s story similarities to your own situation as Laodicea.

In chapter 2, God and Satan have a second conversation regarding Job. Satan says to God, “All right, Job hasn’t rejected You yet. But let me touch him – not just his possessions or his children. Let me get his own body in my hands, he will deny You then!” And God replied, “Go ahead. He is in you hands, but you can’t kill him.”

Satan caused Job to break out in terrible boils from head to foot. At this point, Job’s wife had had enough. “Do you still hold to YOUR integrity?” she asked. “’Curse God and die!’” (Job 2:9, NKJV, emphasis supplied). But Job didn’t listen. “In all this Job did not sin with his lips” (verse 10, NKJV).

Three new characters enter the story, the so-called friends of Job – Eliphaz, Bidad, and Zophar. The arguments of these “comforters” are typical of the Eastern mentality regarding human suffering. All through the book, they are arguing that Job’s intense sufferings are the result of some secret sin in his life. “You wouldn’t be in the condition, Job, if there wasn’t something wrong in your spiritual life. God wouldn’t be punishing you like this otherwise.”

Does God punish us like that? Does He cause us to suffer physically for our sins? No. We need to remember that the arguments of Job’s friends are based oh human reasoning, not biblical truth. That is why God rebukes them in the end. They were misrepresenting His character. But the important element in this story is Job’s reaction to all this. He doesn’t reject their reasoning regarding punishment for sin, but instead he defends his righteousness. That is why Job is so puzzled. Like his friends, he, too, believes that the wicked will suffer and the righteous prospers in this life. Yet he is suffering in spite of being righteous! That is what Job cannot understand.

“Teach me, and I will hold my tongue, cause me to understand where in I have erred.’”…He defends his righteousness before his friends. He is saying, “Where have I gone wrong” Show me what sin you are accusing me of. I am blameless, even though I am suffering.”

By the time we reach chapter 10, Job is defending his righteousness to God Himself. “I will say to God, ‘Do not condemn me; show me why You contend with me….You know that I am not wicked.’” Actually, Job is quite confident that his righteousness is perfect. “God,” Job says, “these friends of mine are accusing me of some secret sin. Show me where I am wrong. I would really like to know what my sin is.” Of course, Job was convinced of his righteousness; he didn’t think he was guilty of sin.

Was there some secrete sin in Job’s life that was the cause of his suffering? No. But did Job have a problem? Yes.

Job continues to insist on his own righteousness and to defend himself against the accusations of his friends. They keep saying, “Job, you must have some secret sin in your life; look how you’re suffering.”

And Job argues back, “No, I have not sinned. I have kept God’s commandments; I have held to my integrity.” Notice what he says in chapter 23. “My foot has held fast to His steps; I have kept His way and not turned aside. I have not departed from the commandment of His lips; I have treasured the words of His mouth more than my necessary food’” (verses 11,12 NKJV)

Does this sound like a man who has been justified by faith? Or does it sound like a man who is confident of his own righteousness, who is self-righteous?

By chapter 31, Job is strongly defending his own righteousness. He calls upon God to judge him. ”Let me be weighed in a just balance, that God may know my integrity.” (Verse 6, NKJV). He goes onto list the good works he has habitually done – fed the hungry, clothed the naked, cared for orphans and widows, and opened his home to the homeless. This chapter is Job's final argument against the accusations of his three friends. “So these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1, NKJV).

This was Job’s problem – he was righteous in his own eyes. He was sincere; he was honest. But he had a problem he didn’t recognize. The book of Job is a historical account of God’s first lesson on righteousness by faith. Let’s see how this is so.

After Job’s three friends quite arguing with him, a fourth man steps in – Elihu. He asks Job, ”Do you think this is right? Do you say, My righteousness is more than God’s?” (Job 35:2, NKJV) Elihu has put his finger on an important point. He isn’t trying to convince Job that his problem is sin, as did the other three friends. He is trying to convince Job that his problem is self-righteousness. And he continues this argument until chapter 38, when God steps in at last to settle the matter.

If you read from chapter 38 to the end of the book, you’ll find that God rebukes Job’s three friends for their mistaken theology. They argued, “Job, you must be a sinner. The fact that you are suffering is proof of sin in your life because God punishes those who do bad things.”….

But God also rebukes Job. “Who is this who darkens counsel by words ("I am blameless") without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me.” (Job 38:2,3, NKJV). God rebukes Job for his self-righteous attitude.

And notice that Job repents. ”Then Job answered the Lord and said: Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.” (Job 40:3,4, NKJV) God’s words silenced Job’s pretensions to righteousness. Job’s problem was self-righteousness. His attitude was that of the rich young ruler who came to Jesus saying, “All these things have I kept form my youth up” (Matt 19:20). Job was so focused all the good things he did and the lack of sinful things in his life the he couldn’t recognize the source of his righteousness was self rather than God. But when he came face to face with God, he admitted, “I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know….Therefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:3,6, NKJV)

What was it that Job had not understood? He had not understood that his self-righteousness was mere filthy rags in God' sight. But when he came face to face with his self-righteous condition, he abhorred himself and repented....

Repentance from self-righteousness is terribly painful because we have to swallow our pride - our spiritual pride. The things we have looked to as evidences of our goodness, we have to see as monuments to self......

God didn't enjoy putting Job through this crisis, but Job had a lesson to learn, and this drastic method was the only way to teach him. When the lesson was complete and Job was fully converted, God was able to bless him....He restored his health, his possessions and his children. [JS]

John, you remind me of someone who can't see the forest for the trees. You must think outside the box of traditionalism...of rigid orthodoxy and fundamentalism.

Nothing about Job...completely off the subject! Context, context, context!

Elihu, the son of Barachel the Buzite, became angry at Job because he justified himself rather than God. [Job 32:2]

Notice God wasn't presenting Job before Satan as "blameless" for Job was too busy justifying himself! Did Job justify himself? Yes:

Job 31:“I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a girl. 2 For what is man’s lot from God above, his heritage from the Almighty on high? 3 Is it not ruin for the wicked, disaster for those who do wrong? 4 Does he not see my ways and count my every step? 5 “If I have walked in falsehood or my foot has hurried after deceit— 6 let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless — 7 if my steps have turned from the path, if my heart has been led by my eyes, or if my hands have been defiled, 8 then may others eat what I have sown, and may my crops be uprooted. 9 “If my heart has been enticed by a woman, or if I have lurked at my neighbor’s door, 10 then may my wife grind another man’s grain, and may other men sleep with her. 11 For that would have been shameful, a sin to be judged. 12 It is a fire that burns to Destruction; it would have uprooted my harvest. 13 “If I have denied justice to my menservants and maidservants when they had a grievance against me, 14 what will I do when God confronts me? What will I answer when called to account? 15 Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers? 16 “If I have denied the desires of the poor or let the eyes of the widow grow weary, 17 if I have kept my bread to myself, not sharing it with the fatherless— 18 but from my youth I reared him as would a father, and from my birth I guided the widow— 19 if I have seen anyone perishing for lack of clothing, or a needy man without a garment, 20 and his heart did not bless me for warming him with the fleece from my sheep, 21 if I have raised my hand against the fatherless, knowing that I had influence in court, 22 then let my arm fall from the shoulder, let it be broken off at the joint. 23 For I dreaded destruction from God, and for fear of his splendor I could not do such things. 24 “If I have put my trust in gold or said to pure gold, ‘You are my security,’ 25 if I have rejoiced over my great wealth, the fortune my hands had gained, 26 if I have regarded the sun in its radiance or the moon moving in splendor, 27 so that my heart was secretly enticed and my hand offered them a kiss of homage, 28 then these also would be sins to be judged, for I would have been unfaithful to God on high. 29 “If I have rejoiced at my enemy’s misfortune or gloated over the trouble that came to him— 30 I have not allowed my mouth to sin by invoking a curse against his life— 31 if the men of my household have never said, ‘Who has not had his fill of Job’s meat?’— 32 but no stranger had to spend the night in the street, for my door was always open to the traveler— 33 if I have concealed my sin as men do, by hiding my guilt in my heart 34 because I so feared the crowd and so dreaded the contempt of the clans that I kept silent and would not go outside 35 (“Oh, that I had someone to hear me! I sign now my defense—let the Almighty answer me; let my accuser put his indictment in writing. 36 Surely I would wear it on my shoulder, I would put it on like a crown. 37 I would give him an account of my every step; like a prince I would approach him.)— 38 “if my land cries out against me and all its furrows are wet with tears, 39 if I have devoured its yield without payment or broken the spirit of its tenants, 40 then let briers come up instead of wheat and weeds instead of barley.”

Does this sound like a humble man, a man justified by faith, or does it sound like a braggart?

Look at Paul before He met Jesus:

Phil 3:4 I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. (That is, brag of my attainments and righteousness) If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee…as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. What did Job say? ” I am blameless”….What’s the context of “blameless”? Works…doing good….

After Saul meets Christ we see a different Paul:

Phil 3:7 But what things were gain to me (all the things he listed), those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung (we know what that is), that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him (there’s the “in Christ” motif), not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

And after Job meets God, we see a different Job. Instead of flapping his mouth – instead of bragging of his righteousness, Job covers his mouth and confesses that he is actually “vile” compared to God’s righteousness.

Thanks Robert. That's good insight on Job. I appreciate all that you have written.