No, Job was keeping the letter of the law. Outwardly he was complying with the law. He had not secret sin, but it was not from God - it was self-produced!



This is the same lame thing Gerry said! IF that is so why repent for not sinning? Why call himself "vile"?

"What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are all wrong! The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition [like Job], the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true condition of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness." [3T 252]

"Vileness" = "wretchedness"

One thing I have learned over the years is that the SDA people (namely the Traditional, Historic SDA) have much in common with Job. Will it take a life shaking event like what happened to Job to wake them from their delusion? I pray not! Learn the easy way....

But Job is! Read the dialog:

Job 33:8 [Elihu speaking to Job] “Surely you [Job] have spoken in my [Elihu's] hearing, And I [Elihu] have heard the sound of your words:

[Now Elihu quotes Job]

9 ‘I am pure, without transgression; I am innocent and there is no guilt in me.'

10 ‘Behold, He [God] invents pretexts against me; He counts me as His enemy.'

11 ‘He [God] puts my feet in the stocks; He watches all my paths.’

Here's the context just before Elihu takes over:

32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he [Job] was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned; against Job his anger burned, [why?] because he [Job] justified himself before God.

How did Job justify himself? Look God - I haven't done anything wrong - I am blameless - I am righteous. You go ahead and judge me because I am perfect. That's what Job is saying....

3 And his [Elihu's] anger burned against his three friends [why?] because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

In other words they condemned him even though they couldn't find anything outwardly. On the outside he looked holy, yet they condemned him. "You must have done something because God blesses the righteous, yet you are cursed." That's how they thought.

When Elihu takes over he sets out not to prove Job's sins, but to prove his self-righteousness and this he does. But it takes God to open Job's eyes fully.

Rob

Job is no more saying he is without sin than "keeping the commandments" refers to people who are without sin. Job is not claiming to be absolutely perfect.

(In Job 13: 26; 14: 17; and 7: 20, 21, Job admits he's sinful.)

Job is simply denying that he has done anything to deserve the terrible punishment he's been suffering. He says, "I know I am not what I am thought to be" (NEB; 9: 35). He is denying that he is to be counted among "the wicked" (10:15).

Job has been loyal to God, and not in order to earn God's favor but because of his faith-based relationship with God. This is brought out many times in the book. It is very important to notice that God Himself never says Job's sins are the reason for his suffering. On the contrary, in asking Job to intercede for his so-called "friends", God provides unquestionable evidence of Job's uprightness and loyalty.

But to what does God fully open Job's eyes? Does God point out to Job that he is really a wicked man? No, he doesn't. What God opens Job's eyes to is the fact that Job has spoken "words without knowledge" (38:2). Nothing of what God says in chapters 38 to 41 questions Job's uprightness or loyalty to God. What is questioned is Job's grasp of God's omnipotence and wisdom.

If Job's problem is self-righteousness, as you suggest, we could expect God to focus on Job's sinfulness, yet God's focus is instead on Job's lack of knowledge of God's power and wisdom. Significantly, this-- rather than Job's sinfulness-- is the subject of God's revelation to Job in the last chapters of the book. It shows that Job's problem is not disloyalty to God. Job's problem in the midst of his suffering is that he does not trust God to distinguish between the righteous and the wicked. It seems to him that not the wicked but rather the righteous are punished. Therefore in the last chapters God opens Job's eyes fully in regard to God's wisdom in order to teach Job to have greater trust in Him even in the midst of incomprehensible suffering.

If we would just all concede tha the story is an allegory it would solve our problems. :-)

mel

In Job 10: 7, Job denies that he is "wicked." But nowhere does Job claim that he has not sinned or that he is without sin. If Job had said he has not sinned, 1 John 1:8,10 says that Job would have been a liar and the truth would not have been in him. Therefore we may be certain that Job is not saying he's never sinned.

Besides, Job 7: 20, 21; 14: 17; and 13: 26 all show that Job is well aware that he's a sinner.

That having been said, Job 33: 9 and 34: 6 must be understood as exaggerations and overstatements by Elihu. Elihu puts words in Job's mouth which Job never uttered. For instance, Elihu quotes Job as saying, "My righteousness is more than God's," (35:2), yet Job had made no such claims.

Therefore, it is self-evident that Elihu cannot be depended on to quote Job accurately. He adds to Job's words things that Job neither uttered nor meant.

This word means that Job sees himself as small and insignificant in comparison with God. He recognizes that he has been superficial in his judgment of things. The same word is translated as "light" and "lightly" in 1 Sam. 18: 23; "small" in Is. 49: 6; "trivial" in Ez. 8: 17. Neither the word itself nor the context signifies that Job is confessing that he is to be counted among the wicked.

If you read chapters 38 to 41, in which God challenges Job, you will not find anything indicating God is finding fault with Job's loyalty or calling Job a wicked man. As stated before, it is highly significant that the last chapters deal with God's opening of Job's eyes not to Job's sinfulness but to God's power and wisdom.

That would mean then that Job was a mere legalist up until the last chapter of the book. Yet this is belied by many statements found elsewhere throughout the book. There is nothing to indicate that Job would like to commit sin but refrains from doing so because of legalism. He hates sin because of his love for, and trust in, God. Job 1: 22 and 2: 10 portray Job as being loyal to God even under the pressure of having everything he loved destroyed, and despite being unable to understand why.

Job 19: 25-27 are not the words of someone serving God legalistically but experientially and from the heart:

"I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.

And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;

I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!"

I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on this.