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#172591 - 06/07/08 05:06 AM Do atoms have hopes and dreams?
nishaun Offline
One who listens, then responds intricately

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 285
Loc: CT
Do atoms have hopes and dreams?
It is interesting that atheism actually proves God's
existence. When atheists start denying the existence of
the human soul they accidentally open themselves up to
that interesting question. By claiming that everything
humans know and love is just a matter of tricky atoms,
interesting questions are brought to light. Once you
regulate hopes and dreams to particle mechanics
obvious problems arise. If the atoms inside the human
mind are capable of hopes and dreams what about those
without? Is it possible that these external hoping and
dreaming atoms form the will of God himself? Atheism
accidentally strengthens the probability of God's existence
by showing the immense dreaming power of
"electrons."

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#172600 - 06/07/08 05:29 AM Re: Do atoms have hopes and dreams? [Re: nishaun]
Bravus Moderator Online   content
Husband and Father

Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 7070
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Two responses (though not counter-arguments):

1. Atoms in the brain do not have hopes and dreams, the complex structure of atoms as a whole does. In the same way, disjointed atoms outside the brain can only do complex processing to the extent that they are structured for processing. The atoms in stars, for example, are unlikely to be doing much dreaming.

2. Reducing God (or God's will) to an emergent property of matter is committing the error of materialism/scientism. The Bible clearly says God is spirit, so claiming that he is a property of matter is unbiblical. God transcends matter.
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#172607 - 06/07/08 06:03 AM Re: Do atoms have hopes and dreams? [Re: Bravus]
Shane Offline
Administrator of Foro Adventista

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 16950
Loc: Rio Grande Valley, Texas
One thought on God being spirit. In the context that Jesus says that, He is basically saying that God is a being. He was talking with the woman at the well about where is the right place to worship. He injects, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." The Greek word in this verse is "pneuma" which can be translated several ways including "the rational soul," "breath," "breeze" or "superhuman." In the context of the discussion it seems Christ was saying that the place of worship wasn't as important as having a relationship with God.

What is the mind and what makes me who I am are certainly philosophical questions more so than scientific questions. These are things philosophers have pondered for centuries. Emotions are certainly something that I think evolutionists are at a loss to explain. The brain is extremely complex. Humans are not the only "animals" have experience emotions. At what point in the process of evolution did animals begin to experience emotions? That seems difficult to understand.
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I reserve the humble right to be wrong.

Link > Shane's Page - update in progress

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#172642 - 06/07/08 02:38 PM Re: Do atoms have hopes and dreams? [Re: Shane]
nishaun Offline
One who listens, then responds intricately

Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 285
Loc: CT
The basis of my argument is many times scientists will try to dumb down the brain and emotions and claim they are just complex chemical reactions. But when you do that you will realize that because the universe has to be more complex than the human brain, (to have created it based on an atheist's assumption). Then the complex reactions of the universe or the entitiy who created it would be more complex than the human brain.

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