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#179641 - 08/08/08 12:47 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: nishaun]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
John3:17:
"In order for Sunday to have taken the place of the Sabbath under the New Covenant, it would have been necessary for the change to be instituted before the New Covenant was ratified, not AFTERWARDS. Hebrews 4: 9 points in a positive way to the weekly Sabbath as a reminder of God's salvation, and it does not in any way suggest that the seventh-day Sabbath had been abolished or changed. "

GE:
In order for Sunday to have taken the place of the Sabbath under the New Covenant, it would have been necessary for the change that Jesus rose from the dead on the First Day of the week -- which He -- unfortunately for the Sundaydarians -- did NOT! From the turmoil, chaos, nothingness and darkness God created, and, rested, the Seventh Day; When God delivered the Israelites from Egypt, God "worked" for them, and gave them the Sabbath; When God freed the People from the idolatrous rule of Atalia, God on the Sabbath Day, saved them --- and gave them the Sabbath; when God gathered Israel from the nations, He gave them his Sabbaths (Ezekiel), after last redemption, God again gives the Sabbath (Isaiah); but when God saves through Jesus Christ, He abrogates the Sabbath? When He raises Christ from the dead, He skips His Sabbath Day, and favours the day after? That doesn't make sense! What did Jesus heal for so often and challenging on the Sabbath, but would not ultimately give the healing of everlasting life on the Sabbath Day? That is contrary God's dispensations. It's contrary his Promises and contrary Prophecy and Law. A Christian Day of Worship-Rest that is not Resurrection-Sabbath Day, is neither Christian, nor worship or rest day.

The Sabbath to be instituted or ratified needed the New Covenant BEFORE AND AFTERWARDS.

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#179642 - 08/08/08 12:52 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: John317]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
I did.

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#179644 - 08/08/08 12:56 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: John317]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
John3:17:
"Luke 24: 1 also says that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week. sabbaton in that verse is not Sabbath but week."

GE:
You print me the letters that 'say' that from that verse, kindly?!

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#179646 - 08/08/08 01:06 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: Gerhard Ebersoeh]
Gail Administrator Offline
I have many points...

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 13614
Loc: Buon giorno, Principessa
Quote:
There is no Scripture that says Jesus rose from the dead on the First Day ... any time! There is JUST ONE Scripture in all of the NT that mentions DIRECTLY AND UNMISTAKEABLY the CIRCUMSTANCE AND TIME of and when Jesus rose from the dead, and that is Mt28:1 .... and it unequivocally literally and once again unmistakeably states "In the Sabbath's fulness of day-light-being (having tended) towards the First Day of the week".


Uh, sorry to interject, but the God's Word translation renders it, "After the day of worship, as the sun rose on Sunday morning..." How does this fit? Is this an accurate rendition?
_________________________
Gail

gail@adventistforum.com

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17

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#179649 - 08/08/08 01:10 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: John317]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
John3:17:
"I take it that you believe Jesus died on Thursday? "

GE:
Mk15:42 and Mt27:57.

The newer translations saw their predicament. So they did what they did with Mt28:1; they 'rectified' it. As Samuele Bacchiocchi has said, they wished they could show the Gospel-writers their errors - or with words to the effect - check them in that article.
1Cor15!! I don't tell you fables; I tell you what I have 'received' -- Paul from God through the Scriptures: That Christ died for our sins = first day; that He was buried = second day; and that He rose from the dead "the third day according to the Scriptures"!!! Which Scriptures?? The Passover Scriptures, the Law, Exodus 12, Lv23: Nisan 14 kill the sacrifice; Nisan 15, burn the remains (return it to the earth); the third day of Passover, day of First Sheaf wave Offering: Symbol of Christ resurrected. Cannot count otherwise: Resurrected "In Sabbath's-time"! (Genitive of time, quality and kind) then before the Sabbath Day and when "It was the Preparation day which is the Before-Sabbath (Friday), Buried; then, BEFORE that, and: "When it had become evening already" when Joseph only started out to go ask for Jesus' body -- He still hung on the cross, ... then, how else than that He was crucified on Thursday?

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#179650 - 08/08/08 01:11 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: Gerhard Ebersoeh]
John317 Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10393
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Gerhard Ebersoeh
John3:17:
"Luke 24: 1 also says that Jesus rose early on the first day of the week. sabbaton in that verse is not Sabbath but week."

GE:
You print me the letters that 'say' that from that verse, kindly?!


Can you give me the name or title of a standard Greek/English Lexicon which says the word should be translated as Sabbath in either Luke 24:1 or Matt. 28:1?

Can you give me the name or the title of a book on Greek grammar which teaches that the word sabbaton should be translated as Sabbath in those same verses?

Third, have you checked to see how the Didache uses it?

It's important to note that 58 out of my 60 translations of the New Testament all translate that word the same way in those verses. That is quite an overwhelming judgment against translating it Sabbath.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#179651 - 08/08/08 01:12 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: Gail]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
This is a grotesque perversion of the W-O-R-D -- of God, namely. Shameless, fearless!

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#179653 - 08/08/08 01:16 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: Gail]
John317 Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10393
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: Gail
Quote:
There is no Scripture that says Jesus rose from the dead on the First Day ... any time! There is JUST ONE Scripture in all of the NT that mentions DIRECTLY AND UNMISTAKEABLY the CIRCUMSTANCE AND TIME of and when Jesus rose from the dead, and that is Mt28:1 .... and it unequivocally literally and once again unmistakeably states "In the Sabbath's fulness of day-light-being (having tended) towards the First Day of the week".


Uh, sorry to interject, but the God's Word translation renders it, "After the day of worship, as the sun rose on Sunday morning..." How does this fit? Is this an accurate rendition?


Yes, that is correct. This is the way it is translated in 58 out of 60 of my translations of that verse; the way all standard Greek/English Lexicons have it; and it is also the way Greeks wrote the word "week" in literature outside of the New Testament.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#179654 - 08/08/08 01:16 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: Gerhard Ebersoeh]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
John3:17:
"Can you give me the name or title of a standard Greek/English Lexicon which says the word should be translated as Sabbath in either Luke 24:1 or Matt. 28:1?"

GE:
Forget about the word 'sabbath/s' first; I meant that jesus rose from the dead "on the First Day of the week" -- I meant that He rose on whatever day is meant here. Does it say He rose on this day? No, it does NOT! Jesus did NOT rise on "MIAN" whichever 'mian'. The text does not say a thing about Jesus 'rising' or rising 'on' this 'day' implied as being the 'first' of whichever.

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#179655 - 08/08/08 01:20 AM Re: sabbaton [Re: Gerhard Ebersoeh]
Gerhard Ebersoeh Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 26
John3:17,
"John3:17:
"Can you give me the name or title of a standard Greek/English Lexicon which says the word should be translated as Sabbath in either Luke 24:1 or Matt. 28:1?""

GE:
It's no cardinal text or 'argument' as far as Jesus' resurrection as such is concerned; NEVERTHELESS I have NEVER come accross a Greek 'lexicon' or whatever that explains the word 'sabbatohn' in Lk24:1 as something else than simply and honestly correctly, "the First Day of the week" = 'Monday'. This is a very, minor, 'issue'; it's NO 'issue' in fact.

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