"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works." Titus 2:11-14 ESV

Notice what grace accomplishes for the believer:
1) Grace brings salvation.
2) Grace trains [Gk to teach, instruct, cause to learn] the believer to renounce [Gk to deny, reject, to refuse, not to accept] ungodliness and worldly passions, i.e. sin
3) Grace trains the believer to live self-controlled, upright [Gk righteously], and godly lives in the present age. NOT by and by when Jesus comes, but while waiting for His coming.
4) Grace paid the redemption price in the person of Jesus Christ from ALL lawlessness.
5) Grace purifies believers to be His own possession.
6) Grace does all these for believers so that they will be "zealous for good works."
7) Grace brings about obedience that springs from faith, Rom 1:5.

"Without grace the sinner is in a hopeless condition, but through divine grace, supernatural power is imparted and works on the mind and heart and character. Sin is discerned in its hateful nature and is finally driven from the soul temple." FW 100.

Gerry

Yes. Jesus is our victory. I'll go to the bank based on what He did ... anyday.

One interesting point that I've just read recently was:

An atheist was invited to visit several churches with a pastor, with the intention of writing a book based on their experience together.

They included large churches like Saddleback and Willow Creek in their travels.

The atheist noticed that in many of them, all one had to do to acquire the salvation was to "say the magic words" and they could consider it all done. Where he was coming from, he thought that a bit superficial.

Then the author who told the story noted that there is almost no difference between behaviourly between many Christians and the world.

That was what got me thinking about this thread's topic. If there is no difference behaviourwise between Christians and the world, then why be a Christian at all?

To me, Jesus is more than salvation from sins. I, too, like Gerry noted above, believe that God's grace gives humans hope for happiness and victory in life today.

I also appreciate Robert's comment about the difficulty in the daily walk.

It is difficult to do it without the Lord's help- for sure! We need to die daily to self. That in itself is hard to give up, although I don't know why knowing the benefits of living under grace.

Sometimes the answer is to just DO IT. Even if you don't feel like it, your feelings can follow along a rational decision. I've learned that. I don't have to be a slave to feelings, as tempting as it is.

As easy as it is for others to accuse of legalism, it's a battle we are in, whether we want to admit it or not.

Thoughts?

If the victorious Jesus is living in the believer, then it should be seen in his/her victorious living, not in failing/losing.

Gerry

>>...it should be seen in his/her victorious living, not in failing/losing.<<

I am put to mind the trials of Job and the perception expressed vis-à-vis the fact that Gd had declared Job perfect. It kinda turns upon how "victorious living and failing/losing" are perceived, yes?

I would add an aside: per 'sin', there is the dichotomy of how one, led by the Spirit, apprehends a strict construction re the sixth commandment against 'killing' - in time of war. There is also the counterpart who is compelled by that same Spirit to take up arms in defense of family, home, and State. Doesn't it all come down to:

each Xtian is led to fulfill that which is in his or her sphere according to how Spirit impresses the individual's conscience ('perfection') - and therein, by and large, lies the definition of 'sin' per se? ...all things considered and in perspective.

Jesus, through the HS, is living in you...true...but, this doesn't automatically equate to victory. Surrender of self - giving up and letting God have the fight is the hardest battle ever fought. God doesn't just automatically take over. He has to have permission.

Rob

Agreed! What you said reminds me of a quote:

"The Christian life ia a battle nd a march. But the victory to be gained is not won by human power. The field of conflict is the domain of the heart. The battle which we have to fight - the greatest battle that was ever fought by man - is the surrender of self to the will of God, the yielding of the heart to the sovereignty of love. The old nature, born of blood and of the will of the flesh, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The hereditary tendencies, the former habits, must be given up.....

We cannot, of ourselves, conquer the evil desires and habits that strive for the mastery. We cannot overcome the mighty foe who holds us in his thrall. God alone can give us the victory. He desires us to have the mastery over ourselves, our own will and ways. But He cannot work in us without our consent and cooperation. The divine Spirit works through the faculties and powers given to man. Our energies are required to cooperate with God.

The victory is not won without much earnest prayer, without the humbling of self at every step. Our will is not to be forced into cooperation with divine agencies, but it must be voluntarily submitted." MB 141-142

"The only hope for us if we would overcome is to unite our will to God's will and work in cooperation with Him, hour by hour and day by day." Ibid, 143.

Gerry

If Jesus is our victory, and we really mean that, won't there be a big difference between our lives and the lives of those who do not accept Jesus' victory?

What is to attract people to Jesus' victory if those who claim the victory are continually defeated the same as non-Christians? Don't they have a right to ask where's the evidence of the victory and the power?

"There is power, power, power in the blood,
in the precious blood of the Lamb."

Dynamite power-- every day. That is good news.

It appears that righteousness by faith gets a lot higher marks in the Word than righteousness by "sin."

Said Paul:
"Why not say--as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say--" Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved."


oG