For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.shtml
Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years

The author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present some of the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church.

The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were using the Bible in its original language. This online book also explains why and how this changed.

Up until now, after reading this post, many believers in eternal torment have said something like, “I truly sympathize with your sufferings, but it’s what the Bible says that matters, not whether or not it makes you suffer.” That’s why I want to say right at the outset that many of the links posted here show that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible actually teach universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation.

I’m 69 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering (including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78) than all the other sufferings of my life combined.

This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html

If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation.

THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that are related to this same subject.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

Don’t kid yourself. If anyone suffers forever JESUS IS DOING IT TO THEM

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

THE GOD THAT CALVINIST AND ARMINIAN ETERNAL TORMENTORS PROFESS TO LOVE

The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

The god that Arminian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

The god that Calvinistic eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)

And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

To read a description of eternal torment combination Calv-Arminianism see
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

This next url sums up the end result of all three
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist.
So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering. What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering!

Thank God the Bible does not teach such an insane idea!

Here is what the God that universal transformationists love and worship with complete abandon will do. He will complete the process of salvation for the first fruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. Then He will complete the process of salvation for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead to guarantee that any necessary "kolasis aionian" (age-during corrective chastisement) will be 100% effective in changing wrong attitudes. All acts of sin have been forgiven for everyone. Attitudes cannot be forgiven. Attitudes must change. This is what the lake of fire which is the second death will do. It will last no longer than God sees is good for everyone involved.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html

You can Google up good articles on this subject by typing in kolasis aionian

Also see

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

For anyone who cannot love an endless-hell god ---
BIBLICAL CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST RESOURCES

Copy and paste the following urls into the address bar

http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html

http://www.christianuniversalist.org

Also see

Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation,

http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

(If necessary, copy and paste them into your address bar)

and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation.

Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm
show just how much this information is helping people.

Also see http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html

This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, and it gives me great joy to keep learning that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 69

I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
He answers the question, "Which view of salvation is true?"

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

Tentmaker is a fantastic site. Good to see it mentioned here.

The Bible has so much to say on Universal Reconciliation and Universal Salvation! It is when we separate ourselves from preconceived paradigms that we are able to see.

rodgertutt, nice to see new members. Welcome. Let me give you a helpful hint about posting on internet forums. The shorter the post, the more likely people will read it. A post as long as this one will not be read by the vast majority of people that click on the thread. It is way, way, too long. Most will simply skip it.

First off, I'd like to say welcome to the Forum. It's always good to see new, especially participating, members.

I completely agree with you that the Bible does not teach endless suffering of the wicked. That's a very important point there.

But there are three major objections that I have to universal salvation:

1) It seems to me that it means people have no choice whether to be saved or not. They MUST saved whether they want to be or not. It would mean God doesn't take our decisions seriously and we are not free to choose. Everyone will be in heaven irrespective of personal choice.

2) It appears to me to go contrary to clear Bible teaching. In other words, I could only believe in universal salvation if I ignore much of the Bible. For instance, the first two chapters of 2 Thess. and the last 4 chapters of Revelation. There are many others that could be mentioned.

3) It means that faith in Christ has nothing to do with salvation, since even unbelievers will eventually be saved. I see this as contradicting the teaching found in such places as John 3: 16, where it clearly says that salvation is conditioned on belief in Christ. It is closely related to objection #1 because they both signify that it doesn't matter what anyone does: they will be saved no matter what. This brings up the question of why Christ came and suffered and died if everyone will be saved irrespective of faith and obedience.

Well John, you had no choice in your condemnation! Paul clearly teaches that we were condemned "in Adam". Why? Because we share Adam's fallen life. We are born sinful because we are born with a nature in full control and outside God. We are born into a lost race. Again, no choice!



When did Christ save you, John? If you say when you believed then Christ must die again and again. No, you were unverisally saved "in Chirst" long before you were born. Christ has (past tense) saved all men in Himself. That's universal.



What about the EGW statement where she has babies, who died before they believed, in heaven? Yes, if you reject God's universal salvation then you must take the curse of the law (God must abandon you because you have told him to essentially get lost)

We are ALL saved unless we decide we don't want to be.

"No one can come to Christ unless the Father who sent Him draws him." (John 6:44)

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

"And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all mankind unto Myself." (John 12:32)

Welcome rodgertutt

It is sad to hear that you suffered because of a wrong teaching! The Holy Scriptures never taught about eternal damanation, it is just man who has interpreted things the wrong way.

I side with John317 here in saying that teaching or believing in a universal salvation is wrong and dangerous, although Christ's intent is to save as many of us as He can, there are some pre-requisites and not all will be saved.

It is however a teaching of the ecumenical movement to preach so, one Christ for all, that is a dangerous teaching and it will lead many astray!

It is wrong to believe in this such as this:



The preaching was OK, till he got to hell, then he went off the tracks, Hell as the bible teaches was created for the devil and will only be around after the 1000 years when Christ comes with final judgement, the "eternal" part only means these souls and the devil will burn once and be eternally gone.

Also people are not devils, they are possessed or influenced by the devils, and furthermore, hell is not fuelled by coal but rather it rains from heaven (The fire in the burning lake) similarly to what happened in Soddom and Gomorrah!

Here's a link that teaches the truth about Hell: The truth about hell

I am wondering what Bible text or texts, or what statements by Ellen White, teach that we are all saved UNLESS we decide we don't want to be saved?


1) John 3: 16 and other Scriptures say plainly that "whosoever believes in Him [Christ] should not perish but have everlasting life."

It is necessary to "believe in Christ."

2) 1 John 5: 12-- "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son does not have the life."

It is necessary to have Jesus Christ.

3) John 3: 3, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of God."

It is necessary to be born from above or of the Holy Spirit.

It is not enough simply never to have made a deliberate or conscious decision that one does not want salvation. One must want salvation and continually choose Jesus Christ.

Well said. You have proved my point ...