Ah, OK, thanks John and Gerry - I did wonder whether there was a distinction between 'perfection of character' and sinlessness, and probably should have spoken more moderately until I had checked out that niggle. I still think she is making that perfection of character the test of salvation, though, which is not mainstream Christian doctrine (where it is acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice that is the sole test of salvation).

True, doctorj, but the church is between a rock and a hard place. If they acknowledge the differences they may well end up in the same pickle as the Anglicans.

What is the biggest difference you've noticed in terms of belief coming from the church's thought-leaders, its writers, teachers, theologians, etc.?

Of course there are some big differences among the laity, because the laity often do not even understand the beliefs of the church. Many have not read a book in years, nor stayed awake in church through a whole sermon, let alone a series of sermons. It is the same way in the Mormon church-- many Mormons don't know their own doctrines. So there is a limit on how much you can judge a church's beliefs by talking to laity. Mostly what that will tell you is how well the church is indoctrinating (not used pejoratively here) its people before they join.

There is almost no variance in doctrine among the "Jehovah's Witnesses." There is a reason for that. It's called operant conditioning.

At one time I believed that way also, John317, until I began to realize it would be necessary for us, before the actual coming of Jesus in the clouds, to repudiate as unnecessary a portion of the Word, in order to make the underlined (Will the church ever be united in doctrine and practice before Christ comes?)above a consistent reality. Of course I'm talking about the ability to unite while sin still is part of our character makeup. If we can be united while sin resides (as opposed to reigns), then I believe we're still on the same page.

If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not)... 1 Kings 8:46 KJV parenthesis theirs

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9
KJV
Regards!

No question about it as far as I'm concerned-- we will have sinful flesh right up the Second Coming. So, yes, I am talking about being united while sin is still part of our character makeup. Human probation doesn't mean that people will be absolutely sinless. It means people won't change sides after that point. It is like Rev. 22: 11 says.

Well said Bravus. Well said.

No need to moderate when you are tellin the truth.

I don't know that I can see any major differences coming through the church's thought-leaders, writers, teachers etc. This is my point. The official channels of communication have this grand, all encompassing idea that we are united in one belief and that the church is moving forward preaching the gospel to all nations. When what is really happening is that at the local church level we have major differences in belief and the way we do things that is nowhere as united as one would believe from our leaders.

Can you give some examples of doctrinal differences that you see on the local level?

I see conservative and liberal.

Of course, there are ultra-conservatives. They are the ones that usually wear suspenders vs belts; long dresses rather than street length which most main stream women do wear but then there are the ones where women wear pants. And the young ladies wear 'short' dresses rather than those that are more modest.

The music can be conservative or liberal. With or without the songbooks. When the projector has words up for worship service...they are often mid-road. Drums etc are considered 'celebration' and that is ultra liberal.
The SS lesson last week was about Paul, being all things to all people. I believe that when regular hymns and more modern music are both offered, there is nothing wrong with that and improves the worship service offering something for everyone.
I recall one of the first times that I attended a Sunday service. Turned out to be 'holy rollers' I did not believe that they were giving the Father the respect that He is owed Amd when I was a wee lass, I did not understand "Amen" being called out every so often. As I grew older, I could not begin to put it into Ultra Conservative nor liberal.My current pastor will frequently request Amens so he knows that we are really listening.

As far as Sister Ellen, Some folks tend to quote Sister Ellen more than the Scriptures.

Some churches pound their followers with Sister Ellen and forget the Scriptures. She would not appreciate that. I am a lesser light to the greater light.

I guess at one time you could place me in that catagory, but I am studying to increase my faith from the Bible only. It is when your 'interest' may not believe in the Bible that I find that extremely frustrating. The common ground is missing.

For one, many at my church do not think the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the "remnant". According to these people, the "remnant" will be a few people gathered together away from any banner of "church". They will literally be a "remnant" of people who will have a very important part in the last day events. That is one example.