Confusing Bible Story.......... - unOFFICIAL ADVENTIST FORUM

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#177611 - 07/21/08 11:15 PM Confusing Bible Story..........
tribeofjudah Beginning to post a bit... Registered: 07/21/08 Posts: 9	I don't quite remember the story, but here it goes: In the Old Testament, Kings or Samuel, there is an instance where a prophet of God disobeys the instructions of another prophet (or obeys it but it was against the will of God)...not so sure now. Either way, the first prophet was killed (by God, I suppose) for his lack of faith and following directions, even though he thought he would obey the other prophet (over God). I am not clear on how the story really goes. I'm trying to locate it again but I'm having a hard time. Question is: Did one prophet trick another prophet into disobedience? It's crazy to think that could happen to us even today....be tricked by a church member? Who then is the greater sinner? The one who disobeyed or the one who seemed to have tricked the other? I had very mixed emotions about this story and was truly confused when I read this passage (but again, I can't seem to locate it now) Help me please and explain it to me if I am not understand the lesson that is there for me. Can someone shed LIGHT on this.....?
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#177669 - 07/22/08 02:31 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: tribeofjudah]
Tom Wetmore Latitudinarian Registered: 06/21/00 Posts: 1234 Loc: Silver Spring, MD, USA	Yes, it is one of those strange stories that is very difficult to understand. It is found in 1 Kings 13. On another thread some time back I cited it as an example of what appears to be God sanctioned lying. And it illustrates a serious point about the imperfection of a prophet. In short, the man of God was given very specific traveling instructions for returning from a mission. A prophet intercepted him and persuaded the man of God to deviate from his God given directions by an extraordinary lie - that he had a message from God that the directions had been changed. A bit later God did give a message of stern rebuke and judgment to the lying prophet for the disobedient man of God that he would die for his disobedience. Ultimately the man of God was killed by a lion and the lying prophet went unpunished. Tom _________________________ "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are soley my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
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#177677 - 07/22/08 06:39 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: Tom Wetmore]
tribeofjudah Beginning to post a bit... Registered: 07/21/08 Posts: 9	Thank you Tom for your response. I am understanding it more clearly now. I also posted this question to Amazing Facts and here is a reply from a staff member there: "That story is found in 1 Kings 13. God specifically told the prophet not to eat or drink there in Bethel, and he was not to go back the way he came (verses 8, 9). The prophet was well aware of what his duty to God was. When he was approached by the false prophet to come home and eat with him he initially refused (verses 16, 17). The false prophet then told him an angel had sent him to relay the message that he was to come home with him. The prophet should have known that this was not true; God had given him the directions personally, and he should have realized that God would not inform him of such a drastic change through someone he didn't even know. In essence, the whole thing should have been an obvious red flag to him. God knows the hearts of men, and in this He was testing the prophet's loyalty to Him. It is apparent that this man was not completely loyal in heart, or God would not have tested him in such a way. This lesson is just as valid for us today. God gives us truth in His word, which we as His people are to follow. When someone comes along claiming to be a Christian and tries to persuade us to accept theology that is contrary to God's word, we are to turn away from it, just as the prophet was to turn away from the temptation to act contrary to God's instructions. We show our loyalty to God by faithfully adhering to His word. In doing that we are saved. If we entertain false doctrine because it is pleasing to our senses, in the end it will destroy us. The allegory of the harlot in Proverbs 7:7-27 is an excellent sketch of what happens when we allow someone to lure us from God's truth to false doctrine. Though it seemed like the false prophet in 1 Kings 13 got off scot-free, the Bible tells us that those who deliberately try to lure God's people off the path of obedience will not go unpunished (Matt. 5:19)."
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#177704 - 07/23/08 01:36 AM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: tribeofjudah]
olger Registered: 12/27/05 Posts: 3178 Loc: Ohio	Amen Sir og
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#177804 - 07/23/08 06:44 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: tribeofjudah]
Tom Wetmore Latitudinarian Registered: 06/21/00 Posts: 1234 Loc: Silver Spring, MD, USA	Interesting explanation. But a number of points are being read into the text in order to make the point. That prophet is not identified in Scripture as a false prophet. He is identified in neutral terms simply as a prophet. And the text also says that the "word of the Lord came to him" and he conveyed that divine message to the disobedient man of God. Now if he was a false prophet, and a lying one besides, why would God opt to speak through him? Why not speak directly to the man of God as before? If God needed to give the clear and immediate message of the consequences of disobedience, why not include the liar too, since that disobdience makes the top ten list of sins? Tom _________________________ "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are soley my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
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#177807 - 07/23/08 06:58 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: Tom Wetmore]
D. Allan Panning for gold Registered: 08/28/00 Posts: 3883 Loc: les Etats-Unis d'Amerique	The most straight-forward ''moral of the story'', imho, is "Do not listen to anyone claiming to be a prophet with a message from God for you. Listen to God only as He speaks within your own heart.
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#177812 - 07/23/08 07:36 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: D. Allan]
tribeofjudah Beginning to post a bit... Registered: 07/21/08 Posts: 9	Thanks Tom, I too don't think that it speaks about a false prophet. It just states that the prophet lied, on purpose, to test the other prophet's allegiance to God. He failed the test. D. Allan also makes a good point above. Here is something I found on the NET: Quote: 2. (18-19) The prophet from Bethel lies to the man of God from Judah. He said to him, “I too am a prophet as you are, and an angel spoke to me by the word of the Lord, saying, ‘Bring him back with you to your house, that he may eat bread and drink water.’ “ (He was lying to him.) So he went back with him, and ate bread in his house, and drank water. a. He was lying to him: The prophet from Bethel gave a false word from God, trying to persuade the man of God from Judah to change his course from doing exactly what God told him. i. “As he found the man of God sitting under an oak, probably faint with fatigue and fasting, for he had no refreshment, his humanity might have led him to practise this deception, in order to persuade him to take some refreshment.” (Clarke) ii. “But his sin was great; for he did not only tell a premeditated lie, but also made God a liar, and to contradict himself, and all this without any pretence of necessity, or benefit to himself.” (Poole) b. An angel spoke to me: Perhaps this was true, and perhaps it was a deceiving angel. Satan and his messengers can appear as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). c. So he went back with him, and ate bread in his house, and drank water: The man of God from Judah listened to the lie from the prophet of Bethel. He did this for several reasons: The prophet from Bethel was probably older (an old prophet, 1 Kings 13:11) and had the respect of the man of God. The prophet from Bethel identified with the man of God (I too am a prophet as you are). The prophet from Bethel claimed a spectacular experience (an angel spoke to me). The prophet from Bethel claimed to speak for the Lord (by the word of the Lord). The prophet from Bethel did not seem to be an idolater who should be shunned (Bring him back with you to your house). The prophet from Bethel offered no reward, other than simple food (he may eat bread and drink water). i. No matter how natural and seductive this enticement was, it was the duty of the man of God to resist it. He had a word from God to guide his actions, and should receive no other word accept through dramatic and direct confirmation by God’s Spirit. His failure at this point ended his usefulness as a man of God. ii. “When we have received a direct command fresh from the lips of Christ, we must act on it, and not be turned aside by a different suggestion, made to us through the lips of professing Christians . . . Deal with God at first-hand.” (Meyer) iii. “God never contradicts Himself in His dealings with His servants. Let us be true to His commands, refusing to be deflected from the path of obedience, even by an angel from heaven.” (Morgan) Edited by tribeofjudah (07/23/08 07:45 PM)
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#177814 - 07/23/08 08:49 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: tribeofjudah]
John317 Registered: 11/13/05 Posts: 10399 Loc: CA	In my judgment, both of your last two posts are right on target. The story of the false lying prophet and the true prophet who accepted the lies contains a great and important lesson for us. Thank you for your posts here. _________________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#177815 - 07/23/08 09:17 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: Tom Wetmore]
John317 Registered: 11/13/05 Posts: 10399 Loc: CA	No one is truly neutral in the war between Christ and Satan. People may appear to be neutral, of course, but as this text shows, everyone is on one side or the other and this fact is eventually made clear. Has there ever been a true prophet of God who lied while God was speaking through them? This prophet lied. The only thing that can mean is that he was a false prophet, since it is impossible for God to lie. If God chose to speak through the mouth of a donkey as well as through Balaam while he was working for an evil king, there is nothing unreasonable about God's speaking through this false prophet as well. For a few minutes this false prophet was actually inspired by God to deliver a message to "the man of God." To find out why, read Ellen White's comments on this story in Prophets and Kings, pp. 106, 107 and in 10 SDA BC 1033. The lesson is that if we know God's will through His revelation, we should not let someone else claiming to be speaking from God to persuade us to disobey what we know God has said. _________________________ Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#177823 - 07/23/08 10:55 PM Re: Confusing Bible Story.......... [Re: tribeofjudah]
jasd Registered: 02/16/05 Posts: 1678 Loc: Oregon	Perhaps, the passage is also meant as similitude – a coin found in the sweeping, a treasure in a field, or a pearl of great price... >>2. (18-19) The prophet from Bethel lies to the man of God from Judah. He said to him, “I too am a prophet as you are, and an angel spoke to me by the word of the Lord, saying, [...]<< [ed.jasd] Amos 5:5 But seek not Bethel, nor enter into Gilgal, and pass not to Beersheba: for Gilgal shall surely go into captivity, and Bethel shall come to nought. There are some what sez..., that this prophecy contains a dual fulfillment; and, there are indicia which correlate to the Modern Church. I find myself tending to agree with one, Harold Camping, in thinking that today’s House of Gd (Bethel) is in view. Example: the Modern Church is an incorporated church – effectively made – an entity of the State/Caesar. Might worthship or veneration of a .org equate to idolatry? mebbe, institutional iconolatry? Hmmm.
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