I think they are negative but the end result of obeying is positive. Most kids see a fence as a negative...but it keeps them safe from the busy road. We just have to teach people to see it as a positive.

Thou shalt not murder is a positive. But God did not mean 'You shall promote life'. That is revisionist. If God had meant 'You shall promote life' ... He would have said ' You shall promote life'. That is the difference. I believe it is a dangerous precedent to take liberties with God words.

@Redwood

Drug addiction is idolatry according to Ellen White:



@Ichabod

Now don't be angry. I know it goes against tradition. The commandment says:

Exo. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Now the question comes up: "who is my neighbour", (Luke 10:29).

Jesus told of the man that was stabbed and left in the ditch to die. The priest left him to die, and so did the Levite, but the Samaritan helped the man. So Jesus asked:

Luke 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

And the answer:

Luke 10:37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

You're neighbor is the one that tried to save your life, not the ones who left you for dead. Someone who is trying to kill you is definitely not your neighbor. That's your enemy. If you have to lie to save life, it's justifiable.

There are many instances in the Bible where God's people lied to their enemy.

Soldiers wear camouflage. They are telling the enemy they are not there when they really are. If they where honest to their enemy, they would lose badly.

And from a different perspective, if it's ok to kill your enemy in war, why is not ok to lie to them too? In a way they also stole from them when they took the spoil.

Also if someone breaks into your house, you should shoot them to save the lives of your family. Because their lives are more precious than the life of some hardened criminal. Then call the police and they write it up as justifiable homicide. As if you killed a rat. In places where honest people own guns, the crime rate is very low. If everyone had a gun by their bed, there would be no such thing as serial killers and rapists.

If you stop a killer by killing him, you have saved the lives of all those he would have killed. If you can stop him and you don't, God could hold you accountable for those he kills.

Exo. 21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

1 Sam. 15:33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.

Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

@WayneV

If it doesn't break one of the Ten Commandments, it's not a sin. You don't have to do anything to make it fit. If you love the Lord with all your heart, you will have the utmost respect for His law and you will realize that the law written in stone by the God of infinite wisdom, Creator of every form of life on this earth and the whole universe, is, to say the least, perfect:

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.


The Holy Law of God has never interfered with the needs of mankind. And to say that "love" grants permission to break God's law, is sort of a perverse thing to say. They did not break the Sabbath by eating corn.

Plucking an ear of corn to eat it is not manual labor any more than grabbing a piece of bread from the bag and eating it. There are laws forbidding specific things like the kindling of fire and the bearing of burdens, but no law against pealing corn. They just made that stuff up. Some of those rules they made up on the spur of the moment just to find something to accuse Jesus with because they hated Him. The accusations against Christ where false accusations. They lied and twisted His words.

Matt. 26:59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
26:60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
26:61 And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

It is a misconception that Jesus condemned these wicked men, though the kept God's law so well. The fact is they had contempt for God's law. They had more respect for their traditions than the Holy Law of God:

We all know this one:

Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

In plotting to murder Jesus, they showed contempt for the law of God.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Stephen points out the same thing:

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which showed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept [it].

They where condemned for breaking God's law. Those who honored God's law ended up following Jesus. He's the lawgiver, and He fulfilled the Law of God:

Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.

There's a lot that can be said about that, but not here.

Now if you really want to discuss justifiable, emergency deeds on the Sabbath, you should probably make a new thread.


@Redwood
Why is it so important for you to have a high post count so that you're even willing to spam?

Posting on a website like this isn't spam, as far as I have ever heard. I think Spam is only related to emailing people without discretion. Anyone is free to post on CA.

I can understand your viewpoint, but do you see a connection between the prohibition against murder and the idea that life is something that should be highly valued?

In other words, is the commandment really fulfilled by our simply not murdering? It seems to me the commandment is really not fulfilled as long as we are hating our neighbor or not being helpful like the Good Samaritan. That is why the priest was wrong when he left the man on the side of road. That was not fulfilling the law. That is why I say the law does not merely require us to refrain from murder but requires us to have agape love and promote life.

I'm just showing that the law of God also has its positive aspects. The commandment against adultery is not simply against adultery in the technical sense but also includes all other kinds of immorality and even wrong desires. But at its core, that commandment calls for us to build good, positive relationships with our spouses and be committed parent's. Being unfaithful to a spouse is also related to being unfaithful to God and to our children.

When Joseph was tempted to commit fornication, it's not insignificant that he said, "How can I commit this sin against God?" Joseph was not only conscious that his act would be a sin against the woman's husband but it would be primarily a sin against God.

Isn't it the same with the other commandments in God's moral law? God does not simply want us to refrain from taking his name in vain-- His object is that we will cultivate a personal, faith-based relationship with Him.

I think you're right Taylor. But still Rush if you want to call our posts Spam .... I would suggest a contest to see who submits the most spam. A brief survey of mine indicates that Rush4hire has a far greater total number of words during the last few weeks than I do and thus HE is the Spam King.

What is sin for one is not a sin for another, could we not say?

I recall she talked down regarding spicy food items. Yet our Hispanic brothers and sisters will down the hottest of hot. It does not affect their stomachs nor health.

I learned a few years back about coffee. It was not a stimulate to me. I would enjoy a good cup with some milk and promptly go to bed and sleep like a baby. It is a drug and many drugs work the opposite in my body.

Main reason I do not consume it now is that I could never prepare it in the right way.

The sin problem

Oh, Robert...no need to be shy...Print Jack's stuff out there...



Sin Defined
Before we can proceed to study the gospel it would be well to define sin more fully so that the good news of salvation will be meaningful to us. The Bible uses some 12 different words to define sin; but putting these together we may categorize sin into three basic concepts. These three are all expressed in Ps. 51:2-3. They are: iniquity, sin, and transgression. We will consider each one of them separately.





Iniquity
The root meaning of this word is “to be bent.” As used in Scripture it refers to our spiritual condition. Note the following texts:

Psalm 51:5. David was “shapen in iniquity” from his very birth. This was his spiritual condition since physically he was handsome [1 Samuel 16:12]. The primary meaning of iniquity is not an act but a condition. As a result of the fall, man by very nature is spiritually “bent,” so that the driving force of his very nature is love of self. Paul defines it as “the law of sin and death” [Romans 7:23; 8:2]. It is this condition that is the basis of all our sinning, and which makes us slaves to sin [Romans 3:9-12; 7:14].

Isaiah 53:6. Two things are revealed in this text. 1. Everyone of us has gone astray, since we have all turned or bent “to his own way.” 2. This own-way-ness (i.e., self-centeredness) is synonymous with iniquity, which was laid upon Christ our sin bearer; and it was this “sin in the flesh” that Christ “condemned” on the cross [Romans 8:2-3].

Iniquity, therefore, is simply seeking our own way, a condition we are born with and which (without a Saviour) makes it impossible to do genuine righteousness, since the law of God requires even our motives to be pure [Matthew 5:20-22, 27-28]. In contrast to iniquity or self-seeking is agape (divine love) which is of God and which “seeketh not her own” [1 Corinthians 13:5]. Our next study will cover this in greater detail.

Isaiah 64:6. Because man by nature is “shapen in iniquity,” all the righteousness produced by him through his own efforts is like filthy rags before God, because it is polluted with self-love. According to Zech. 3:3, 4, “filthy garments” are equated with iniquity. In contrast to these filthy garments of ours (self-righteousness), the white raiment of Christ (His righteousness) is offered to the Laodicean church so that they may be truly clothed, and “the shame of [their] nakedness do not appear” before the judgment seat of God [Revelation 3:18; 10:3-4].

Matthew 7:22, 23. Self-righteous acts camouflaged or disguised in the name of Christ are exposed in the judgment and clearly identified as works of iniquity (i.e., works motivated by self-love). All Christians must consider this text seriously. Do our works originate from Christ and therefore motivated by agape, or are they the “fair shew in the flesh” [Galatians 6:12]? Are our works the result of a genuine relationship with Christ (i.e, works of faith) or are we working in His name but we really don’t know Him? [See also Luke 13:25-28.]

Philippians 3:3-9. The converted Paul recognizes the worthlessness of his self-righteousness and willingly exchanges it for the righteousness of Christ which is by faith.
Once we understand the true meaning of iniquity we will realize that nothing good dwells in us [Romans 7:18] and we will begin to “hunger and thirst” after the righteousness of Christ so freely offered to us in the gospel.


Sin

The actual meaning of this word is “missing the mark.” In Judges 20:16 the Hebrew word sin (translated in the KJV as “not miss”) is used true to its meaning. Used in a spiritual sense, sin is missing the divine mark or coming “short of the glory of God,” which is His selfless love or agape [Romans 3:23].

Since all men are born spiritually “bent” (shapen in iniquity), it is not difficult to see what Romans 3:10, 12 says: there is none righteous and no one who does good. Man’s sinful condition makes it impossible for him to do anything but sin, unless he has a Savior. That is why the gospel is man’s only hope of salvation. While man does have a free will to choose between accepting Christ’s righteousness offered in the gospel or rejecting it, he does not have a choice between doing sin or geniune righteousness. Man is born a slave to sin and no matter how hard he wills or tries, he will fall short of the divine mark [Romans 7:15-24]. For further study read the following texts: Job 15:14-16; Psalm 14:2, 3; Isaiah 1:4-6; Jeremiah 17:9; Mark 7:21-23.


Transgression

This word means a deliberate violation of the law, or willful disobedience. Transgression pre-supposes that one has the knowledge of the law. In the spiritual realm, transgression is the violation of the moral law, or ten commandments of God [see 1 John 3:4]. A knowledge of God’s law makes sin to be “transgression.” Note the following:


Galatians 3:19. The law was given to make sin into transgression.


James 2:9. The law convinces us we are transgressors.


Romans 3:20. Through the law we have the knowledge of sin.


Romans 5:20. The law did not solve the sin problem but made it “abound” all the more.


Romans 7:7-13. The law exposes our sinful condition and reveals our total bankruptcy with regards to righteousness.

Since sin is a deceiver, it would be impossible for sinful man to fully realize his condition unless God revealed it to him. This He has done by giving the law. The law was never given as a means of salvation or to deal with sin. The law is incapable of producing righteousness in us because of man’s sinful state [Romans 8:3]; the only way that man can be saved is in Christ. The Scriptures clearly state that “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight” [Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16; 3:21-22; 5:4]. It cannot make man holy and good because he is sold under sin [Romans 7:12, 14]. But God gave the law to sinful man to be “our schoolmaster [or escort] to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith” [Galatians 3:24].

@Taylor

Spam posts are short, random posts that don't do anything to contribute to the topic, but have the sole purpose of increasing one's post count. Such behavior is considered dishonest. In some forums a spammer will be banned for a day or two if repeated warnings are ignored.


@ChildofChrist

It's possible that some have not been burdened about coffee and tea and the Lord doesn't hold it against them.

I don't think spicy foods are like drug addiction. Ellen White doesn't say much about spicy food. She sure doesn't call it idolatry or addiction.

Also, peppers which are fruits are considered healthy, while black pepper and mustard are kinda toxic and irritating to the stomach. So it depends on what you call spicy foods. In fact I don't find the word "peppers" in EGW writings. The word "pepper" seems to always apply to "black pepper". Maybe they didn't have red peppers in north America back then. IMO they are ok, but black pepper is bad.


She's probably talking about black pepper.


@Robert and Neil D

I don't see how you can stomach reading that stuff. It's worse than Shepherd's Rod. It's even worse than L. Ron Hubbard. It stinks.

So your question is what commandment does it break to go whoring after false prophets like Sequeira? Cherishing false doctrine is also called idolatry by Ellen White.



There's also Samuel:

1 Sam. 15:23 For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry.

When Jack Sequeira and Desmond Ford, along with other such apostates, come up in the second resurrection, their condemnation will be for idolatry.

There's also covetousness. They coveted fame, honor, and money instead of doing the work God had for them to do.

There's also pride, which breaks the first commandment. Some even worshipped these men.

And false witness. They led God's elect into confusion.


What I'm still waiting for is a verse from scripture, or even Ellen White that calls something a sin which does not break any of the Ten Commandments.