Elihu pinpointed Job's problem. He hit the nail squarely on the head. Job's problem was one of self-justification. Instead of Christ defending Job in Himself, Job was presenting his own righteousness.

Since Job was not in heaven to defend his own self, God had to present Job's view of himself to Satan.

Job 1: 1. The narrator himself describes Job as blameless and upright, a man who feared God and shunned evil. Does the narrator tell the truth here? Unless the narrator is undependable, his description of Job is valid. In fact, the purpose of the whole book is lost if Job is not blameless and upright and does not shun evil.

The issue is not whether Job is justified by faith or whether Job has ever sinned. The issue is whether Job is being punished for his sins. The answer is NO. Job is not trying to persuade people that he has never committed a sin in his lifetime. Job is saying he cannot think of anything in his life that would cause God to punish him as his friends believe he is being punished.

Does Job say he is innocent? Does Job justify himself? Yes, of course. If he didn't, he would be saying his friends are right to say he has committed some sins for which God is punishing him. Of what is Job innocent? He is innocent of the sins his friends say he committed and which they say are the reason for the terrible ordeal Job is passing through. None of that translates into "self-righteousness".

It would be similar to my coming to you while you are in jail and asking you or telling you of some terrible crime you committed in order to be in jail. You would no doubt say you are innocent and you would probably try to justify yourself. Would this fact mean you are claiming never to have sinned or committed a wrong act in your lifetime? Of course not. The same applies to Job here.

Now that's building a straw man! Sorry, you can't limit the story of Job to fit your view only.



Job's 3 friends didn't charge him of a specific sin. That's why Elihu rebuked them:

Job 32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned; against Job his anger burned, because he justified himself before God. 3 And his anger burned against his three friends because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

The NIV says, "He [Job] was also angry with the three friends, because they had found no way to refute Job, and yet had condemned him."

What Elihu is saying is that Job's 3 friends condemned him even though they had no evidence. They were also wrong to charge God with doing evil. You see God destroys no one; man destroys himself. Ellen White said that! When we see someone suffering...when we see sickness, death, etc...it doesn't come from God.

Take for instance the unbelieving, self-righteous Jews: It seems God destroyed them in 70AD. Does God work like this? No! These Jews placed themselves outside God's protection and in so doing destroyed themselves.

Job, although not totally given over the sin of self-righteousness, partially placed himself outside God's protection. Was Job a good man? Yes, in the eyes of those around him. But when we compare Job to God's law all his goodness was as filthy rags! How so? Because all of his works were polluted with self. 1 Cor 13:3 points to this fact.

So Job's 3 friends were wrong in two areas:

1] They were falsely accusing Job of sin without proof.

2] They were misrepresenting God's love and hence God Himself.

Rob

Rob, that is exactly what you do, in my opinion.

Graeme

I know I asked you this before, but I never saw your answer if you gave one: have you studied Jack Sequeira's book Christ Speaks To Leodicea?

I read that book while in Denver and while on the plane back. I enjoyed it and felt that it has some very good things to say. I would like someday to discuss that book with you. The one part of the book that I couldn't agree with Jack S. about has to do with Job. Jack assumes that God allowed those terrible things to happen to Job for the purpose of teaching Job a lesson about self-righteousness, but this interpretation goes against everything contained in the book. Job never does learn the reason for his suffering. That is very important, because it makes Job just like us. We also do not know why we suffer. We simply have to put our faith in God, the same as Job did.

You said Job 1:1-- the fact that the narrator tells us that Job was blameless, etc.-- is a "straw man." Please explain how you understand that verse and how you understand its relationship to the rest of the book.

Was Job blameless and an upright man, one who feared God and shunned evil, or wasn't he? I say he was. What say you?

I'm not presenting the traditional view at all. Hence another version....And an accurate one, in my opinion. :)

Rob

Been through this with Robert several times.

He makes astonishing claim that the Bible doesn't mean what it says, it means what he says it means.

To wit: " Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

The Bible says "the LORD said to Satan," but Robert would have you believe that instead it's what "Job said to the LORD."

Tough sell.

Yes, by his own works....Hence, he was blameless in his own eyes.

The narrator doesn't get into what view he is presenting - that is left for the reader, guided by the Spirit, to conclude.

Rob

Rob ... I do find your thoughts attractive. But why would God say that no one else is like him? Wouldn't a lot of people have this self-righteous issue?