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#177771 - 07/23/08 11:34 AM Is there more than one definition of sin?
rush4hire Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 86
Loc: Kansas
I've heard say there are many definitions of sin. This idea torments me and throws a wrench in the gears of my logic. I believe there's only one definition of sin:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

When the word "sin" is used in the Bible, it is always used in reference to breaking one or more of the Ten Commandments, from the first use of the word:

Gen. 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What sin was lying at the door? Murder. He was angry and killed his brother. That's commandment #6.

God wanted to help Cain resist the temptation to sin, so He gave a way in which he could show he had a covenant with God so God could help him in spite of Satan's accusations against God and man.

The counsel was to offer a lamb to represent "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world", (John 1:29). "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb", (Rev. 12:11).

There's nothing in the law of God about lambs. So this is not law, but counsel. God gives counsel so we know how to keep ourselves from sin. If we don't heed that counsel, we will most likely end up sinning.

God can also count us as though we have sinned if God knows we will. For instance if you hate someone, God knows that if you could get away with it, you would end that person's life, so God says hate = murder:

1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

We all understand these principles, so let's now look at verses which have been uses as "definitions" of sin.



1. Knowing to do good and not doing it.

It does not say "Sin is knowing to do good and not doing it", but rather:

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.

If I said "adultery is sin", that would be a correct statement.

If I said "sin is adultery", it won't work. Adultery is not the definition of sin, but is one of many sins.

The rest of the chapter will tell us more. In the verse above that verse:

James 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

What kind of evil? Oops. Did God neglected this evil in the Ten Commandments?

I hope not. I can't imagine God blushing.

Let's just look at the whole chapter:

James 4:1 From whence [come] wars and fightings among you? [come they] not hence, [even] of your lusts that war in your members?
4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume [it] upon your lusts
.

He said they where killing each other because of covetousness. That's 2 commandments.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Now adultery? Maybe in a figure. Like they are whoring themselves out to the God's of the world.

Maybe they where also literally committing adultery. We see alot of adultery in the world. In the world they make movies and songs to glorify adultery.

I think we've knocked out at least 4 commandments, maybe 5.

James 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Envy is covetousness, right? Maybe a mix of covetousness and murder.

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Now we start talking about pride. What was the first thing Satan promised? "..."Ye shall not surely die
", (Gen. 3:4).

That gives a false sense of confidence. But what was the 2nd thing?

"...ye shall be as gods", (Gen. 3:5).

When people feel free to make gods out of themselves, it's Satanic, and it breaks the 1st Commandment. That's pride. That's why there's so much counsel about humility. In the same chapter it says:

James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Where does such pride lead?

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
4:14 Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
4:15 For that ye [ought] to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.


But maybe until then they didn't discern their pride and covetousness. But now they have something to think about. Now he's calling them to repent of a sin they may not have discerned as a sin. He does say they where breaking God's commandments.

If you humble yourself, the Lord can make you rich if it would be good for you, but if you go on without God, you will develop friendship with the world which leads to all kinds of evil, as we see, starting in the next verse:

James 5:1 Go to now, [ye] rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon [you].
5:2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
5:3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
5:4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5:5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
5:6 Ye have condemned [and] killed the just; [and] he doth not resist you.


So we're getting into covetousness, idolatry, pride, murder, fraud, (#9). It's covetousness to keep back wages from your workers. That's evil. What he or one of his family dies because he couldn't afford medical care or proper food? That's murder.

What if a man of God tries to set you strait, then you kill him?

That's what "such boasting" leads to. So many people don't discern this.

But the Lord says no one will have an excuse not to know.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

What sin? Again, just look at the verses above:

15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
15:21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.


Their sin was murder.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

They would be persecuting Christ's disciples, and they had no excuse for doing that. Jesus said, they would have persecuted any of the holy prophets, even Elijah: (Matt. 23:29-37; Matt. 17:12)



Item 2. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

This is almost the same principle as the one we just dealt with. There's really not much difference between this statement and "to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin.."

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

The issue is whether or not to eat something you suspect may have been offered to an idol. If you know it has been and you're troubled about it, and you still eat, you're not eating of faith, so it's a sin.

This is not a new definition of sin. The sin here is idolatry which is defined as sin by Commandment #2. Some might think they would be committing idolatry by eating at a restaurant that has idols of Buddha. Then they shouldn't eat there. It wouldn't be of faith to eat there. Others might not notice the idol or they just think it's decoration and the Lord doesn't burden them about it. Even if he eats there, no one can say he's not eating of faith.

Romans 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The same idea is expressed here with different words.

"it is evil for that man who eateth with offence"
"whatsoever is not of faith is sin"

sin = evil
not of faith = offense




Item 3. Sin is selfishness

This one comes from Ellen White:

Originally Posted By: 'Ellen_White'
All sin is selfishness. Satan's first sin was a manifestation of selfishness. He sought to grasp power, to exalt self. A species of insanity led him to seek to supersede God. And the temptation that led Adam to sin was Satan's declaration that it was possible for man to attain to something more than he already enjoyed, possible for him to be as God Himself. The sowing of seeds of selfishness in the human heart was the first result of the entrance of sin into the world. God desires every one to understand the evil of selfishness, and to co operate with Him in guarding the human family against its terrible, deceptive powers. The design of the gospel is to confront this evil by means of remedial missionary work, and to destroy its destructive power by establishing enterprises of benevolence. {WB, September 9, 1902 par. 3}


She does not say "sin is selfishness", as if she where trying to give a new definition of sin, but she says "All sin is selfishness". There's a difference.

It's like saying all sin comes from selfishness, like "...the love of money is the root of all evil", (1 Tim. 6:11). Love of money and selfishness are similar concepts.

Selfishness is defined in this passage as covetousness, where Satan inspired man to want something that wasn't his, to be as God, (not in a good way).

The selfishness of Satan also lead to murder.

John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil... He was a murderer from the beginning...

In another passage, we see that selfishness also falls under the category of sin.

Originally Posted By: 'Ellen_White'
...We must close the door of the heart to every suggestion that shall have the least tendency toward keeping us from this state of harmony. We must not hamper the soul and cripple its powers by the indulgence of selfishness. Selfishness is sin, and it grieves away the Spirit of Christ. When we cherish unkind thoughts, and harbor suspicions against our brethren, we are cutting ourselves off from the channel of God's light and love. Jealousy is as cruel as the grave, and should never be cherished in the heart, much less expressed in the actions... {ST, April 13, 1891 par. 3}


She says jealousy is cruel. That implies hate, which we already said is murder.

Selfishness is called a sin, therefore it would be covered in the Ten Commandments. At the same time, choosing to sin can always be seen as an act of selfishness.



4 Conclusion

Sin is not some abstract thing. If God will condemn sin, He has to write it in stone what sin is.

You can't say that sin is the breaking of the Ten Commandments, but besides that, there are other things which are also called sins which have nothing to do with the Ten Commandments. That's a bit confusing and it doesn't do justice to God's law.

You can't even say that it's a sin to not pray because there's nothing in the Ten Commandments about prayer. Men didn't start praying until the days of Enos, the grandchild of Adam.

Gen. 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

So why pray? The same reason Cain should have offered a lamb. Because if you don't, you will probably sin. You pray because you need God's help to resist the temptation to sin.

The Bible is full of counsel for us to hedge ourselves against the attacks of Satan; to keep ourselves from committing sin.
Is there more than one definition of sin?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted starting: 07/23/08 11:33 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.


Edited by rush4hire (07/23/08 01:02 PM)

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#177826 - 07/23/08 11:19 PM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: rush4hire]
WayneV Offline


Registered: 03/21/00
Posts: 739
Loc: Farmington, NM, USA
I think that "whatever is not of faith is sin" is more encompassing than you have illustrated in your exposition. For instance, when you make a career decision (or any decision, for that matter), if the decision is made in faith that it is what God wants you to do, it is not sin. But, if the decision is made for any other reason (e.g. money, power, benefits, fame, convenience, etc.), then it is a sin! Makes the phrase "living a life of faith" take on a whole new meaning doesn't it?

Therefore, I believe that it is probably the most complete definition of sin that we currently have.

When 1 John 3:4 is removed from it's context, it sounds like it's about breaking the ten commandments. The whole chapter of 1 John 3 is about LOVE (agape`), God's love for us, our love for God, and our love for one another. It would probably be helpful to determine which "law" the verse is talking about transgressing. Could it be the law of love (agape`)? "What law of love?" you ask. See Lev 19:8, 34; Deu 6:5, 10:19, 11:13, 30:16; Jos 23:11; Mat 5:44, 19:19, 22:37-39; Mar 12:30-31; Luk 6:27, 35; Joh 15:17, etc.

If I were to paraphrase 1 John 3:4 as I understand it, in context, it would be something like, "Whoever actively sins fails also to love (God and man) with a perfect love: for sin is the failure to love with a perfect love."

My $0.02
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WayneV

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#177845 - 07/24/08 02:13 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: WayneV]
Marie Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Michigan
It is possible I am not understanding your question right. But I said no because the Bible says that it don't matter what commandment we do not keep, it is sin. It makes me feel like regardless of what we do wrong, it is sin regardless. There isn't a sin that is greater or less than another..... it is all sin.

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#177849 - 07/24/08 02:27 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: WayneV]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
The essence of sin is irresponsible and rebellious thinking.

Sin is not just a failure to comply with this or that regulation. Rather it is a spirit of rebelliousness and hostility, a rejection of what is known to be right, an unwillingness to submit to the authority of truth.

The Greek word for obedience means a "willingness to listen".
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#177853 - 07/24/08 02:40 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: Redwood]
doctorj Offline


Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Sin is sin regardless as to how you end up transgressing. After all what would be the benefit of having different types of sin. God regards all sin as a transgression of God's laws.
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#177855 - 07/24/08 02:43 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: doctorj]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
Sin is sin


Would you say that 'sin is sin' then?

Some here might object. Be ready.!!


Edited by Redwood (07/24/08 02:47 AM)
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#177858 - 07/24/08 02:46 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: Redwood]
doctorj Offline


Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: Redwood
Would you say that 'sin is sin' then?

I am not sure what you are asking by that question. Can you elaborate?
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Make sure you have finished speaking before your audience has finished listening. -- Dorothy Sarnoff

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#177859 - 07/24/08 02:49 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: doctorj]
Redwood Offline
Swiss n Swedish American

Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 6769
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
Quote:
After all what would be the benefit of having different types of sin.


Some would say that there should be different types of punishment for different types of sins.
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#177864 - 07/24/08 03:06 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: rush4hire]
Neil D Offline
Today, I ain't for sale. Check back tomorrow.

Registered: 08/10/00
Posts: 12017
Loc: Ca., Id, Wa., Or. or somewhere...
Of the bad things the bible tells us, Sin, Iniquity and transgression are the biggies....To define any one of them, you can not use the others as, according to the bible, they are 3 totally separate things...

For example, your example of
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now, without using either word, diffine sin and define transgression.... Most adventists can not, as they have been indoctrinated that transgression is sin...Well, if transgression is sin, what is Sin? Sin is transgression...? If so, you have a circular arguement...which, as I understand our language, is supposed to be illogical. And to continue to use those words with that definition is setting oneself up for failure in theologyy.

Let's start with the little known understood word, Iniquity. What is iniquity?

Iniquity is that state that we are in that allows us to do bad things. Concider the following text that helps to explain this.

Isaiah 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.


Since hebrew poetry repeats the same thought in different words, we have to conclude that "Iniquity" is going astray or doing our own thing. The most accurate translation is selfishness...although even, now I am not sure that doesn't cover it totally. But for now, it will do.
So, iniquity is selfishness....an innate desire to center the universe within ourselves.

What is transgression, then?
by definition, it is willful disobedience.Knowingly, deliberately going beyond the bounds that God has set up.

So, what is sin? Sin is the disobeying of God's plan for you. It comes from the iniquity, and sometimes it is deliberately disobeying God's plan for your life. See Romans 3:9-12. We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."[c]
-



These are working definitions of Sin, Transgression and Iniquity. While Sin is a state of continual rebellion, Iniquity tells us that it is in our genes, and transgression tells us that we can deliberately transgress God's law/will/ plan for our lives.
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Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
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#177878 - 07/24/08 04:26 AM Re: Is there more than one definition of sin? [Re: Neil D]
Marie Offline
Getting the hang of posting

Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Michigan
"The essence of sin is irresponsible and rebellious thinking." Quote

This is very true. It is what is behind the sin that makes the person unfit for heaven.... his heart. He has not submitted to God in his heart.

So even those who feel they are following the Lord, we make mistakes. Now we can say that the temptation came upon us and over took us on the spot, and this may be true, we did not plan to sin. But sin is still a lot like pain. It is not the problem half as much as the reason for the pain/sin. To heal either, one needs to get to the reason for it, have it (body or heart) healded, and that takes care of the pain/sin. Make sense?

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