#177781 - 07/23/08 05:11 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Bravus]
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Swiss n Swedish American
Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9035
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
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No-one seems to have taken up the 'sins of omission' issue. ALL sins are 'willful'. If we know God as it is our privilege to know Him ... we will not sin period. And that includes ANY kind of sins ... omission or not omission. If we choose not to know Him ... we will have sins in our lives ... ALL kinds of sins. Omission and Non-Omission. The choice is yours. You can get to know Christ or not. But as Ellen White says ... "There is NO excuse for sin." And I would add ... Omission or Non-Omission.
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Another one of Woodies Goodies Love WON Another. Redwood the tree
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#177821 - 07/23/08 10:50 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Redwood]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10411
Loc: CA
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No-one seems to have taken up the 'sins of omission' issue. ALL sins are 'willful'.... Doesn't it appear on the basis of Hebrews 10:26 that all sins cannot possibly be willful? If all sins are "willful," it would just say "go on sinning," period, and not refer to "sinning willfully." See quote of verse below.
Is it not obvious, then, that it is making a clear distinction between willful sins and those sins that are not willful? Explain the text in such a way that it means all sins are willful sins. Remember that the book of Leviticus also makes a clear distinction between sins we deliberately and knowingly commit and those we do not know about until after they are pointed out to us. See, for instance, Lev. 5: 15, which refers to unintentional sins. What is your definition of "willful"? Is it the definition that is found in the dictionary and that the courts refer to when they use it in such terms as "willful crime" in distinction to crime that is accidental or unintentional? Is there such a thing as unintentional sins or sins of ignorance or sins that people commit without deliberately planning to commit them? Hebrews 10:26 [ Christ or Judgment ] For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Hebrews 10:25-27 (in Context) Hebrews 10 (Whole Chapter)
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Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#177939 - 07/24/08 03:08 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 596
Loc: Kansas
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Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
It's not so complicated.
Willful sin is where you sin and you don't feel bad about it, but you justify yourself, like in the example of Num. 15 where the man deliberately picks up sticks on the Sabbath. He is stoned to death because there is no hope of him ever repenting.
It's the same thing as presumptuous sin. It's the same as blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. It's the unpardonable sin.
When people say the Ten Commandments have been changed, they show themselves to be among the living dead. They cannot repent, but will forever harden their hearts and justify their sin. They are ripe for judgment:
Josh. 11:19 There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all [other] they took in battle. 11:20 For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, [and] that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses.
All of these had committed the unpardonable sin. All where living in willful sin. They blasphemed the Holy Ghost. They where willing to fight and die to defend their freedom to sin.
1 Sam. 2:24 Nay, my sons; for [it is] no good report that I hear: ye make the LORD's people to transgress. 2:25 If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall entreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.
There are more examples of people passing beyond the point of no return. They are reserved in chains of darkness for the judgment.
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
That's why we don't stone people to death anymore. Instead they are given over to strong delusion.
2 Thes. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Be not discouraged if there are so many who don't receive your message of hope. There are many who can't receive it because they are sealed for destruction.
Hebrews 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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#177940 - 07/24/08 03:18 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: rush4hire]
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Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 2032
Loc: CA
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David deliberatly sinned by having his affair and he repented. Seems his sin would be considered more "serious than picking up sticks on the Sabbath"...or at least with more wide spread consequences..such as David's son died...such as it also included murder of the woman's husband in battle etc.
The ONLY sin God can't forgive is the unpardonable sin. The unpardonable sin is not a specific activity but a consistent walking away from God...a consiste saying.."I don't want to hear what you have for my life..get away from me." It is a sin that take time, not just a one event type of thing. The unpardonable sin isn't murder or Saul would have never made it to Paul. It isn't denying Christ or Peter would not have become the powerful wittness for Christ where 3,000 were baptized in one day. It isn't cheating and lying or Jacob would not have had God's favor..after lying to his father and cheating his brother out of the birth-right. Yes all these sins are serious and if they are not repented of..they will lead to a hardening of the heart...that soon does not hear the Holy Spirit's prompting and pleading.
The same sun that hardens clay melts wax. It depends what you are made of...it depends how you react to God pointing out sin in your life.
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#177943 - 07/24/08 04:46 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Taylor]
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Swiss n Swedish American
Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 9035
Loc: A citizen of Heaven
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A Great Description of the Unpardonable Sin. Thanks.
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Another one of Woodies Goodies Love WON Another. Redwood the tree
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#178057 - 07/25/08 12:26 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: John317]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15440
Loc: Columbia, SC
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No-one seems to have taken up the 'sins of omission' issue. ALL sins are 'willful'.... Hebrews 10:26 This is talking about the rejection of Christ - the sin of unbelief.
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"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#178058 - 07/25/08 12:46 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Taylor]
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Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 15440
Loc: Columbia, SC
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David deliberatly sinned by having his affair and he repented. Seems his sin would be considered more "serious than picking up sticks on the Sabbath"... Apparently David never under the law - under the terms of the old covenant, which are: 1] Obey and live, 2] Disobey and die. Here's a fellow that was "under law": Deut 21:18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. Under grace (the opposite of being under law) David commits adultery and murders and the law doesn't touch him. Under law a man doesn't obey his parents and has a Bud light now and then and he gets death. I vote for grace....
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"We preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness"
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#178068 - 07/25/08 06:04 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 12/25/04
Posts: 2032
Loc: CA
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The Bible says "the wages of sin is death". But Jesus has stepped in and given forgiveness to anyone that will accept it. God's grace is always greater than our sin.
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#178080 - 07/25/08 07:57 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10411
Loc: CA
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[quote=Bravus]No-one seems to have taken up the 'sins of omission' issue. ALL sins are 'willful'.... Hebrews 10:26 This is talking about the rejection of Christ - the sin of unbelief. Yes, but it is an illustration of the use of the word "willful," and shows that there are sins that are willful and sins that are not. Same with Leviticus which speaks of sins that are intentional and sins that are unintentional. Ellen White makes the same distinction over and over again. To say that all sin is willful is the same as saying all crime is willful. Confusion about these terms brings confusion to important Biblical concepts. It can cause people to see no difference between deliberately sinning and unintentional sins due to ignorance. For instance, there is a big difference between deliberately breaking the Sabbath after we have studied the Sabbath and are convicted of its truth, and someone breaking the Sabbath without being aware that it is the Sabbath or not seeing its importance.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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#178085 - 07/25/08 08:39 PM
Re: Doug Bachelor's interpretations - part 2 - "The Rich Young Ruler"
[Re: Robert]
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Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10411
Loc: CA
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David deliberatly sinned by having his affair and he repented. Seems his sin would be considered more "serious than picking up sticks on the Sabbath"... [quote] Deut 21:18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. Under grace (the opposite of being under law) David commits adultery and murders and the law doesn't touch him. Under law a man doesn't obey his parents and has a Bud light now and then and he gets death. I vote for grace.... I agree that that is part of the effect of grace. But what else does grace mean? Does it only mean that we can commit crimes and not be punished for them? I see grace as meaning that God finds us in the mud and cleans us up. The really great news is that Christ is a physician and heals us of our sin so we no longer have to go on sinning. This concept is summed up in Romans 8: 1-6 and in 1 John 3: 1-10. Being the sons of God, then, does not simply mean we don't die for our sins but we receive God's power to cease being a slave of sinful desires. It is not simply God's accounting us righteous but empowering us to live for Him.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats
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