I found the last 2 paragraphs of this editorial particularly interesting, and it leaves me wondering how a capitalistic society can survive if it focuses on efficiency and renewables rather than consumption. Any thoughts?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080716_dont_drink_the_nuclear_kool_aid/

none in that article


It's quite funny, really. Less than twenty years after the demise of the great planned economies of Communist Europe, we still have people wondering if free market societies can survive.

Freedom really frightens people.

Basically probably because they don't remember or haven't studied what happened. Today a person can graduate from high school or even from some colleges without having studied the history of things like the Revolutionary War or the Cold War.

A properly regulated capitalistic society is the best economic system.

I just wonder if that really sustainable. It does not promote the idea of conservation. It's all about consuming, which is parasitic. No matter how regulated it is, it seems to me that capitalism can only end in the trashing and destruction of the earth - sooner or later.

Capitalism generally leads to greater personal liberties. It doesn't mean that it is a perfect system. A perfect system does not exist.

If anyone thinks that socialistic or Marxist or "communist" government do better at conservationist issues, let them check out how the USSR and Eastern Europe did between 1945 and 1990 or how China is doing today. There is some of the worst pollution in the world.

Under capitalism and democracy, people are free to move in the direction of conservation through representative government. Under dictatorships, which is usually what socialism results in, only socialist or communist party members determine policy.

God's injunction to be fruitful and multiply was the last thing that they would consider a blessing if over population was a concern of God's.

God's promise to Abraham that his seed would be as the sands of the sea was hardly a blessing to his herdsmen & Lot's who felt that the land had outstripped the ability of the land to sustain them. Funny thing is, God is right. More people means more productivity, and modern environmentalists (not suggesting you are one) think more like Lot than they do Abraham.

Erlich's formula is fundamentally flawed in that he sees man as a consumer & polluter only, and not as a producer.

"The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men."

rejoice always,

oG

I'm not saying that capitalism is the only way to trash the earth. But it seems to be the one focused on consumption, that couldn't exist without consumption. Somehow I can't believe that is the way God intended us to live, or how He intended for us to take care of the earth.

A well-regulated capitalistic society will take care of the Earth because it is in its own self interest to do so. The fact that the US has the EPA is proof of that. The EPA is a regulatory agency which prevents individuals or companies from destroying the environment. If one looks at the history of the USSR and China they will discover there was a lot of environmental damage under the communist governments.

I don't think it's an issue of Capitalism or Communism. Both are by far not ideal. One falls due to greed, and the other due to tyranny. The fact is that late overspent capitalism is based on Keynsian phylosophy of "in the long run we are all dead". Which means... enjoy it while it lasts. We are not brought up thinking about limits and conservation. Limits and conservation are inhibitors to profits, and profits drive capitalism.

Basically, I would say that bad capitalism (not the one that Shane is describing... and the one that does not and will not exist) is the one that is destroying the earth right now. Men were created with idea of self reliance and independence. I.E. they would grow their own food, and others will not eat of it (this is the way it will be in new earth). The industrial revolution flocked people to large cities where they invented variety of "services" and "products" to serve as wants. Then the marketing comes around to tell you exactly why you should want these products. So we have a specialized sector to grow our food, which it tries to stuff as much as possible produce per acre, and as many as possible chickens in the cages and milk from the cows. As a result you get the system where food quality suffers. It's an unsustainable formula. People are crammed in the cities instead of learning how to be self sufficient.

I can guarantee you that if people would be more self sufficient, they would be less wasteful... because self sufficiency comes at a cost of your own labor and not the labor of others. This is something that neither communism not capitalism can supply. Actually, it's closer to anarchy... the good kind of course... not the one that is running around exploding stuff.