In studying the lesson quarterly this week I came across the story of the woman who was caught in adultery (John 8:1-11). This story has bothered me a lot because of what Jesus said to the woman. If you remember, this story starts out when the Scribes and Pharisees bring a woman who was "taken in adultery". The Scribes and Pharisees were trying to catch Jesus.

In the end, Jesus told them that that those without sin could cast the first stone. As Jesus was writing in the sand they all melted away leaving the adultress alone in front of Jesus. Jesus said that he did not condemn her, but he said "go, and sin no more."

My question is directly about what Jesus said "go, and sin no more". As a sinner by birth how is it possible to "sin no more". I am struggling with a particular sin in my life. I ask for forgiveness and yet I am caught up in this sin where I am living a lie. I cannot get out of this sin, I have tried not to sin. Every night I ask for forgiveness and I ask for power to overcome the sin. Yet everyday I am presented with it again and again. How is it possible to "go, and sin no more"?

Hope someone has an answer.

I struggled with some sins like that. I struggled and lost every time for about 35 years. I came so close about 3 years ago to giving up. The Lord only gave me the victory when I decided that Jesus was my only hope and my only real life. I had to come to the point where I saw my body and my own life as good as dead and see Him as my only real life.

Also I had to exchange Lords-- myself and my desires (my old lord and master) dies, really DIES, and Jesus now becomes my owner.

I see my body and its members no longer to be used for Satan's purposes but for Christ's only. I do not want to take my body and use it to glorify Satan and let him use me to slap Jesus in the face.

I had to get to the point where I would rather die than commit those sins again. We sin because we love to sin. At least I did.

When we really hate sin we will stop it. That means praying that God will give you a deep hatred for sin-- for what it did to Christ and to God. For the way it makes God look bad.

What if your sin caused the death of your child? Would you do it? For instance, if you knew that when you sin, someone was going to march your wife or son or daughter out in the front yard and cut their throats like a sheep, would you commit that sin?

I really believe we sin because we don't see what it actually did to Jesus Christ. Once we get a good look at that and understand it fully-- have the blinders taken off our eyes-- we won't sin deliberately and intentionally.

We do it rather nonchalantly because we think, "Oh well, Jesus paid the price and he will forgive me like he has thousands of times already. What's one or two more sins?" Maybe you don't think quite that way, but many people do-- if they think of it at all.

I know because that is where I was for most of my life, and that is after I struggled and studied and even prayed.

Why did I keep sinning? Because in my heart and mind, I really loved it. I didn't hate it. I always kept something in reserve. I didn't give Jesus ALL of me.

And Jesus must have ALL of us or nothing. He won't accept only a part of us.

Does he always forgive when we ask him? Of course. But the problem is not God's forgiveness. The problem is the sin. Every time we commit sin, it changes us and does something to our relationship with Him, just like a man's relationship to his wife is changed by his going to another woman even if the wife does not know about it.

Sometimes sins can be such that it takes much prayer by whole congregations before members can get free of them. So I would suggest that you appeal for special prayer. No need to say what about-- only that you need prayer about a special, personal problem that only God must know.

I'll be praying for you, my brother.

Please study prayerfully and slowly the following verses:

Col. 3: 1-10---

1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him...

1 John 3: 1-10. Study this and ask the Lord to help you really understand it and apply to your present life.

1SEE WHAT [[a]an incredible] quality of love the Father has given (shown, bestowed on) us, that we should [be permitted to] be named and called and counted the children of God! And so we are! The reason that the world does not know (recognize, acknowledge) us is that it does not know (recognize, acknowledge) Him.
2Beloved, we are [even here and] now God's children; it is not yet disclosed (made clear) what we shall be [hereafter], but we know that when He comes and is manifested, we shall [[b]as God's children] resemble and be like Him, for we shall see Him [c]just as He [really] is.

3And everyone who has this hope [resting] on Him cleanses (purifies) himself just as He is pure (chaste, undefiled, guiltless).

4Everyone who commits (practices) sin is guilty of lawlessness; for [that is what] sin is, lawlessness (the breaking, violating of God's law by transgression or neglect--being unrestrained and unregulated by His commands and His will).

5You know that He appeared in visible form and became Man to take away [upon Himself] sins, and in Him there is no sin [[d]essentially and forever].

6No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains [e]in communion with and in obedience to Him--deliberately, knowingly, and [f]habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].

7[g]Boys (lads), let no one deceive and lead you astray. He who practices righteousness [who is upright, conforming to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action, living a consistently conscientious life] is righteous, even as He is righteous.

8[But] he who commits sin [who practices evildoing] is of the devil [takes his character from the evil one], for the devil has sinned (violated the divine law) from the beginning. The reason the Son of God was made manifest (visible) was to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil [has done].

9No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and [h]habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

10By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children and who take their nature from the devil and are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God's will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother (his fellow [i]believer in Christ).

Appreciate you sharing this.. THANKS

Stan

Oh, yes, thank you to BOTH of you! Jesus is our only hope!

EGW talked about how we would do well to meditate on the life of Christ an hour each day. It makes sense for this is how we can see the sinfulness of sin and the gravity of the great controversy, the larger picture.

Thank you both of you, for focusing on the personal aspect. It is a battle, and God holds the victory!

I believe that Jesus' words are referring to conscious, deliberate sins. He is isn't talking here about our fallen nature or sins that we are not aware of.

Also, I believe that we can take it for granted that Jesus would not give a command that there is no way for anyone to obey. Ellen White says something I believe, and is supported by the Bible, which is that God's commands are really promises, because what he commands us to do, He provides the power for us to do. But it is all a growth process.

God knows we are but flesh. He loves to have us come to Him in faith and ask for strength and power and forgiveness and mercy. He is not shocked by anything we do or think.

Study and apply 1 John 1 and 2 to your personal life. NEVER GIVE UP. Trust Jesus. He will do what He has promised. I do not know you but I can tell you that He may be waiting for you to give Him all of you and not hold back anything in your life.

When I feel terrible temptation, I say something like this to Jesus, "Jesus, I'm feeling a lot of temptation. You know what temptation is like. Direct my thoughts and feelings. I'm giving myself totally to you right now. I'm dedicating myself completely and totally to you. I can't do anything on my own, Jesus. I give you permission to cleanse my thoughts with your Spirit. Come into my Life and take full control. Drive Satan and all the evil angels away. I belong to you, Jesus. You are my Lord. Thank you, Jesus, because I know you are answering this prayer now. I thank you, my Lord Jesus, for giving me opportunity to demonstrate your power."

And then I often open my Bible to various promises and I read until the feelings change. Usually my own experience has been that the wrong desires leave very soon after praying and reading the promises.

During the last three years, I have never known Jesus to fail me in this. Within a few minutes the temptation and feelings are gone. Stay on your knees in prayer and reading your Bible promises until those thoughts and feelings leave you.

For about the last 2 years, the temptations have been fairly brief and not as strong and are quick to leave when I throw myself at Christ's feet for mercy and hope. He has never abandoned me.

I didn't do this for the 30+ years of struggle where I failed almost every time because I was trying to do it on my own. Instead, what I used to do was say a prayer and then go on and surrender to the temptation, thinking something like, "I just can't resist this. I can always ask for forgiveness afterwards. Jesus loves me and will forgive me this sin. He knows how I need to do this. He made me with these desires and needs."

That was exactly the wrong way to go about it. That is a recipe for eternal defeat if it continues. I know because that is how I dealt with it for most of my adult life.

You see, the problem is that I wanted both Jesus and my sins. I wanted heaven, yes, but I didn't want to get rid of ALL my sins, not my favorite ones. So they very nearly consumed me.

I am talking about sins or desires that I believe I was born with. But I know now that Jesus gives us power through the Holy Spirit to resist and overcome even sins that we are born with.

It is a strange thing but there is a sense in which my terrible temptations have made me feel even closer to Christ because I know that He understands my utter helplessness on my own in such situations and that He loves to help me. The more we are conscious of our complete reliance on Jesus, and the more we confide in Him our weaknesses and helplessness, the more intimate we feel towards Him. He truly becomes a personal friend and companion. He is a very close and present help and Savior.

Friend, on my next post on this thread, please find two quotes from the Desire of Ages that helped possibly more than anything else that I've read to bring me the answer that I was looking for. I pray that they will also help you to find the answer to your question and the solution to your problems with temptations.

Copy those quotes from DA as well as your favorite Bible promises and keep them with you at all times so you can read them and pray about them whenever you feel the need and even when you don't feel the need. Fill your mind with thoughts of Jesus and of what He is doing right now.

Also, may I suggest that you have a strong, Christian friend (of the same gender as you are) whom you can trust and can call at any time for prayer and moral and spiritual support and encouragement

Look on these temptations as opportunities to show the power of God and Christ and to put nails in sin's and Satan's "coffin."

Through the same faith we may receive spiritual healing. By sin we have been severed from the life of God. Our souls are palsied. Of ourselves we are no more capable of living a holy life than was the impotent man capable of walking. There are many who realize their helplessness, and who long for that spiritual life which will bring them into harmony with God; they are vainly striving to obtain it. In despair they cry, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this body of death?" Rom. 7:24, margin. Let these desponding, struggling ones look up. The Saviour is bending over the purchase of His blood, saying with inexpressible tenderness and pity, "Wilt thou be made whole?" He bids you arise in health and peace. Do not wait to feel that you are made whole. Believe His word, and it will be fulfilled. Put your will on the side of Christ. Will to serve Him, and in acting upon His word you will receive strength. Whatever may be the evil practice, the master passion which through long indulgence binds both soul and body, Christ is able and longs to deliver. He will impart life to the soul that is "dead in trespasses." Eph. 2:1. He will set free the captive that is held by weakness and misfortune and the chains of sin. DA 203

When the soul surrenders itself to Christ, a new power takes possession of the new heart. A change is wrought which man can never accomplish for himself. It is a supernatural work, bringing a supernatural element into human nature. The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes His own fortress, which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends that no authority shall be known in it but His own. A soul thus kept in possession by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan. But unless we do yield ourselves to the control of Christ, we shall be dominated by the wicked one. We must inevitably be under the control of the one or the other of the two great powers that are contending for the supremacy of the world. It is not necessary for us deliberately to choose the service of the kingdom of darkness in order to come under its dominion. We have only to neglect to ally ourselves with the kingdom of light. If we do not co-operate with the heavenly agencies, Satan will take possession of the heart, and will make it his abiding place. The only defense against evil is the indwelling of Christ in the heart through faith in His righteousness. Unless we become vitally connected with God, we can never resist the unhallowed effects of self-love, self-indulgence, and temptation to sin. We may leave off many bad habits, for the time we may part company with Satan; but without a vital connection with God, through the surrender of ourselves to Him moment by moment, we shall be overcome. Without a personal acquaintance with Christ, and a continual communion, we are at the mercy of the enemy, and shall do his bidding in the end. DA 324

Thank you for the reponses. There is a lot to digest there. I will do that over the morning and come back to you about questions. Boy is there a lot to digest. I did not think for a moment that I would have such lengthy responses. But thanks!

Don't feel in any hurry about reading those things or about replying. There is a lot there, I realize.

I'll be praying for you about these things, doctorj.

Appreciate your posts John.

DJ sometimes we ask God to take something away, but it is a consequence of something deeper. God doesn't work that way. Waht we can do is ask God to reveal the cause of the consequence and resolve that (in Him).

Also, some things are rebellion against God and must be repented of - this involved acknowledging our sin and going back to face it. There is a Bible precedent here..


Praying for your freedom,


gcw

Totally out of context...totally! The sin Christ was referring to...the sin that was besetting in her life at that time, was the sin of sexual immorality. Otherwise, Jesus is making impossible for her. Why? Because all of us are failing to measuring up to Christ's life of self-renouncing love!

Rob

We agree about what Jesus was talking about. He was referring to the sin of sexual immortality, which she knew she was committing. He was not talking about the fact of having a fallen nature.

Jesus was not telling her to do something he knew was impossible. By the power of God's Spirit, we can cease to commit deliberate, willful, conscious sins. He provides us with the power to resist and overcome sins that the Holy Spirit convicts us of.

But of course this will never happen if we believe it can't happen. It's a matter of taking God at His word, believing what He tells us. He gives us promises. Why not believe them?

Yes! Besides the fact that there is nothing in scripture that indicates that the woman complied.

Nor do you have evidence from Scripture that she didn't.

Gerry

true

Yes, but what I get confused about is eternal life and sin. If we are given eternal life for simply just believing, then can we lose eternal life because we don't rid ourselves of wilful sinning?

I find it interesting that John and Robert use different definitions of Sin to make their points...and yet, I also find it interesting that there is a 3rd definition that did not make it to this discussion.

Doing the shorten form of this discussion, there are 3 definitions that are often overlapping when we use the word "Sin"...[please note, it is a big "S" version of Sin as opposed to the little version of "sin". ] The Big verson of "Sin" encompasses all three definitions...Why? Well, the answer to that question depends upon your understanding of the next two words- Trangression and Iniquity. Is transgression a sin? Is iniquity a sin? I think we all agree that those words can also be defined as Sin as well. But the question is which definitions...

Transgression is willful, deliberate violation of a known law. When the Prodigal son left home, he willfully transgressed his father's rules when he 'lived it up' and threw partys and was rather willful in violating those once seeminly 'restrictive' rules Dad had.

Iniquity, on the other hand, is also sin, but it is an inhertant sin, something that has affected our DNA, and it causes us to be selfish. So, iniquity is a selfishness that slowly errodes our choices. The Prodigal was hungry because he did not made provision for his needs, due to his provisions going for other things. So, he may have transgressed the law by stealing, and found himself caring for pigs of a wealthy farmer.

The 3rd definition is also called "sin" with a little "s"....because there are times when one can willfully make choices that are good and right, but are still knowingly wrong. For example, I can willfully choose to be a mechanic when I am designed to be a doctor. The result is that I am good at neither profession. And I have not lived up to God's ideal for me. Hence, to not live a life of faith, is sin.

In the case of the woman, who was caught in Adultery, and told to "go and sin no more", perhaps we overlook that what Jesus was saying was, 'Give up the life of an adultress, and life your life of faith, as you should. Live as God wanted you to live.'

Excellent!



Again, excellent!

I notice that you haven't give a single Bible verse to support your viewpoint. You've given us opinion and conclusions here, but now how about some Scriptural evidence? Show how you reasoned from Bible evidence to arrive at your conclusion.

I am not at this time disputing your viewpoint. I am simply asking that you show that what you say is true on the basis of Bible evidence, both Old and New Testaments.

We are not left in the dark to conjecture about this.

"But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die." Ez 18:24 ESV.

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." Heb 10:26,27 ESV.

Gerry

First, a good EGW quote:

-BC- Mar
-TI- Maranatha
-CN- 83
-CT- Proof Against Every Temptation
-PR- 02
-PG- 91


The infinite value of the sacrifice required for our redemption
reveals the fact that sin [iniquity] is a tremendous evil. Through sin [iniquity] the whole human organism is deranged, the mind is perverted, the imagination corrupted. Sin has degraded the faculties of the soul. Temptations from without find an answering chord within the heart, and the feet turn imperceptibly toward evil.

Whatever iniquity is, it comes very natural (see the blue lettering).


Ez 28:13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering,...you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created,
till iniquity was found in you.

Note, iniquity was found IN Lucifer. Something changed on the inside.

Paul, referring to the man of Roman's 7 struggle, words it this way:

Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh;... if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

Notice Paul says "sin which dwells in me"! In verse 23 he calls it, "the law of sin at work within my members".

Law here simply means a force...a principle at work in our members. Remember it was first found in Lucifer. It's like a disease, but it's not because you can remove cancer for example.

David, in Ps 51:5, states that he was formed in this sin:

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin [i.e., iniquity] did my mother conceive me."

Yes, continued willful sinning can cause people to lose eternal life. The gift of eternal life is not unconditional. There are conditions. The idea of "once saved, always saved," is not taught in the Bible--although there are many who would argue that I am wrong on this point. The problem is that this view can only be held if we ignore quite a lot of Bible evidence.

It's not a question of whether the Lord is willing to forgive us. He never stops forgiving sincere and honest repentance. The problem is that if we continue willful sinning, it changes the sinner so that in time the sinner's conscience becomes insensitive and ceases to see his true condition. He can come to the place where he thinks everything is fine and that He will be saved IN his sin. He may no longer wish to leave his sin. If that continues, the Bible shows us that God leaves the person to his sin.

Continued willful sin is a sign that Christ is not our Lord. The only solution is for the person to realize his desperate situation and change who is ruling his life.

Study First John, Romans 8, and Galatians 5 and 6. Memorize Gal. 2: 19, 20 and say it to yourself over and over again every day with meaning and understanding.

Also make close contact with a brother Christian who loves Jesus and prays and who is willing to pray with you and encourage you whenever you need help. Spend at least 2 hours a day in the Word and on your knees in opening your heart to God in prayer. Don't stop. Jesus will do it. Realize that as long as you are in sincere, faith-based relationship with Jesus Christ, God sees you as righteous as Christ Himself!!!! Picture yourself seated with Jesus in heaven and do not allow your body to be used as instruments of unrighteousness.

The point wasn't about the bible verses and establishing a foundation...the point was that there was a third definition to Sin that was not addressed. [edited the paragraph for over reacting comment. My bad.]

Ok, John, for you....I will give the quick bible definitions.

Iniquity- Isaiah 53: 6
Transgression- I John 3:4
sin [please note, the lower case]- Roman 3:23

Now, you have the biblical evidence, John..

The Hebrew Old Testament has some 12 different words to define sin and the Greek New Testament about five. Together they represent seven categories of sin. To fully appreciate God’s unconditional agape love and the incredible good news of the gospel — the truth as it is in Christ — it is important that we first come to grips with these seven categories of sin. They are as follows:

1. A deliberate act against the law of God. See 1 John 3:4. (The King James Version uses the word “transgression,” but the Greek word means “lawlessness,” which is deliberately choosing to live a life of sin.)

2. A mental consent to a temptation or a sinful desire, the sin of coveting. See Rom. 7:7,8. (See also Matt. 5:27,28; James 1:14; Prov. 24:9.)

3. Unbelief, a deliberate rejection of a Biblical truth. See Rom. 14:23. (See also John 3:18; John 16:8,9.)

4. Neglect of known duties or opportunity. See James 4:17. (See also James 2:14; Matt. 23:23; Matt. 25:43-46.)

5. Doing the wrong thing out of ignorance. See Lev. 5:17-19. (See also Luke 12:48; 1 Tim. 1:13.)

6. Our sinful natures, which we inherited from Adam. See Psalm 51:5; Psalm 58:3. (See also Rom. 5:19,20; Eph. 2:3b; Phil. 3:20,21.)

7. A law, principle, or constant force, dwelling in our sinful natures (indwelling sin in the flesh). This makes us slaves to sin. Therefore, holy living, in and of ourselves, is impossible. See Rom. 7:14, 20-23. (See also Luke 11:39; John 8:31-34.)

Note: The first four definitions of sin (#1-4) involve guilt because we choose to commit these sins (guilt involves responsibility or volition). But the last two definitions of sin (#6 & 7), which we all inherit at birth because of the Fall, do not involve guilt (i.e., responsibility) but only condemnation (see Rom. 5:18). While these last two definitions of sin do not involve guilt, they nonetheless make us sinners by nature and, therefore, disqualify us from heaven (see Rom. 5:19; Eph. 2:3b; 1 Cor. 15:50).

To: Doctorj:
Well, since I didn't answer you kindly on the Olympics post, I will try to be kinder here.
A pastor in the N. American Div, Potomac conf once said, "We close our eyes and pray for guidance, then open them up and do our own thing."
That's hard. I've struggled the same as you for many years over many differnt things. I noticed in your other post, you are a bit harsh on yourself. Try this prayer, if you can:
Lord, give me the courage to help someone You love today and just once make it me.
That prayer is so powerful and it takes courage to pray, because believe me, it will be answered and it will make you positive and things will happen. Maybe not exactly like you want them to happen, but things will happen in your life. You will see a difference, I guarantee you.
When stuff starts happening to me like what is happening to you, and it really does, this is what I do...but I have to work up the courage to do it. Sometimes I have to pray to have the courage to pray the prayer.

Thanks for that, Neil D. I appreciate it more than you know. Really.

I'll come back after a while and write something on this.

These are some of the verses and remarks that I want to concentrate on. I think you've said some really important things.

To: robert and John317:
Do you 2 know how to speak to the heart felt need or are you just academics who like to hash over philosophies? I thought the original questions was a heart felt quetion which required a real answer. I've read all three pages, and have failed to find an answer. Are you going to attempt to give the man one?

Continued willful sin is a sign that Christ is not our Lord. The only solution is for the person to realize his desperate situation and change who is ruling his life.

Study First John, Romans 8, and Galatians 5 and 6. Memorize Gal. 2: 19, 20 and say it to yourself over and over again every day with meaning and understanding.

Also make close contact with a brother Christian who loves Jesus and prays and who is willing to pray with you and encourage you whenever you need help. Spend at least 2 hours a day in the Word and on your knees in opening your heart to God in prayer. Don't stop. Jesus will do it. Realize that as long as you are in sincere, faith-based relationship with Jesus Christ, God sees you as righteous as Christ Himself!!!! Picture yourself seated with Jesus in heaven and do not allow your body to be used as instruments of unrighteousness.

I struggled with some sins like that. I struggled and lost every time for about 35 years. I came so close about 3 years ago to giving up. The Lord only gave me the victory when I decided that Jesus was my only hope and my only real life. I had to come to the point where I saw my body and my own life as good as dead and see Him as my only real life.

Also I had to exchange Lords-- myself and my desires (my old lord and master) dies, really DIES, and Jesus now becomes my owner.

I see my body and its members no longer to be used for Satan's purposes but for Christ's only. I do not want to take my body and use it to glorify Satan and let him use me to slap Jesus in the face.

I had to get to the point where I would rather die than commit those sins again. We sin because we love to sin. At least I did.

When we really hate sin we will stop it. That means praying that God will give you a deep hatred for sin-- for what it did to Christ and to God. For the way it makes God look bad.

What if your sin caused the death of your child? Would you do it? For instance, if you knew that when you sin, someone was going to march your wife or son or daughter out in the front yard and cut their throats like a sheep, would you commit that sin?

I really believe we sin because we don't see what it actually did to Jesus Christ. Once we get a good look at that and understand it fully-- have the blinders taken off our eyes-- we won't sin deliberately and intentionally.

We do it rather nonchalantly because we think, "Oh well, Jesus paid the price and he will forgive me like he has thousands of times already. What's one or two more sins?" Maybe you don't think quite that way, but many people do-- if they think of it at all.

I know because that is where I was for most of my life, and that is after I struggled and studied and even prayed.

Why did I keep sinning? Because in my heart and mind, I really loved it. I didn't hate it. I always kept something in reserve. I didn't give Jesus ALL of me.

And Jesus must have ALL of us or nothing. He won't accept only a part of us.

Does he always forgive when we ask him? Of course. But the problem is not God's forgiveness. The problem is the sin. Every time we commit sin, it changes us and does something to our relationship with Him, just like a man's relationship to his wife is changed by his going to another woman even if the wife does not know about it.

Sometimes sins can be such that it takes much prayer by whole congregations before members can get free of them. So I would suggest that you appeal for special prayer. No need to say what about-- only that you need prayer about a special, personal problem that only God must know.

I'll be praying for you, my brother.

Are the responses given in the above two posts anything like what you had in mind?

Sometimes what is perceived to be a non-answer is because the core of the answer gets stuck somewhere in the sheer preponderance of verbosity. I tend to skip over the lengthy explanations, diatribes, and/or ruminations because I get lost. But that's okay....

OK people, Y'all need to start leaving bread crumbs for Rudy so she doesn't get lost!

How does it work?

Through believing and accepting jesus right now I can have instant salvation.

What happens after that?

I sin and does that sinning change it all and takes away my salvation that was given as a gift? OR

What are the alternatives? I must come to Jesus after everyday of potentially doing wrong and he needs to give me that gift again?

How does it work practically?

Oh, the bread crumbs are there...it's just that they go in figure 8s and after following a few figure eights, one tends to be very dizzy....This convoluted bread crumb trail just ain'nt cutting it.....

Yes, most definitely. That is what the Bible teaches clearly in such verses as Acts 16: 31; Mark 16: 16; and 1 John 5: 11.

But remember that the Bible views salvation as something that begins in the present and will be completed in the future at the resurrection or Second Coming.



In the same way that you received Him, so you are to walk in Him. That means that you continue to accept Him as your Lord and Savior every day of the rest of your life.



No. See 1 John 1:9-2:2

(New International Version)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.



As long as the believer is in a faith-based, sincere and honest relationship with Christ, and he is repenting of and confessing his sins to God, he may be certain that God does not take the gift away.

1 John 5: 12

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Romans 8: 1-14--

1 So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power[a] of the life-giving Spirit has freed you[b] from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature.[c] So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
5 Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. 6 So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. 7 For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. 8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.) 10 And Christ lives within you, so even though your body will die because of sin, the Spirit gives you life[d] because you have been made right with God. 11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

12 Therefore, dear brothers and sisters,[e] you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do. 13 For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature,[f] you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children[g] of God.

1 John 3: 1-10

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