By the same reasoning, a person could be led to pray to anyone who has ever lived, since the Bible does not say they are not in heaven. Can you name anyone about whom the Bible says definitely he or she is not in heaven? (Judas may be one of the exceptions.) Therefore, the standard is not whether we know for sure they are not there but rather whether the Bible teaches that they are there.

In regard to Jesus' mother being in heaven, consider the fact that the Gospel of John was written between 70 and 90 AD. probably closer to 90 AD. John 19: 27 says that from the moment of Christ's death, Mary was a member of the disciple's household. It's apparent that the disciple referred to was John himself. There's no indication at all in the Gospel that Mary was taken to heaven, an omission impossible to explain if John was aware that she had been resurrected and ascended bodily to heaven.

You make some rather sweeping statements yourself but it's ok fellows you can untie those knots in your shirts now and I will leave you alone.
I like to think of Jesus and Mary hanging out together and enjoying each other's company. That is the kind of a son I think He is. Wouldn't be surprised if Joseph is there as well.

Is our belief based on what we like to think or is it based on a sure, clear "thus says the Lord"?

You may like to think these things, but the Bible gives us no reason to believe them.

However, let's suppose for the sake of the discussion that Mary and Joseph are in heaven. Even so, that would give no cause for anyone to believe God wants people on earth to pray to them or worship them or appeal to them for help. This is the central issue: who should we worship and pray to? Who does the Bible say is our only mediator?

The Bible is clear that we should pray to and worship God alone.

Therefore, whether or not Mary and Joseph are now in heaven is immaterial to those who choose to base their beliefs and practices on the word of God.

Do you believe that the events recorded in Exodus 3, of God's appearing to Moses at the burning bush, were real or merely a vision in Moses' head?

I don't think there can be any doubt that those events were actual. Yet, in referring to them, Acts 7:31 uses the word horama, the very same word as used in Matt. 17: 9. It is usually translated as "sight" in Acts 7: 31 and obviously does not mean a "vision." There is excellent reason to believe this is also its meaning in Matt. 17: 9, and that is how virtually all Bible commentators and translators understand it.

Man...you're entitled to think what you like, that however does not turn your thought into truth and if I can remember correctly SDA's believe in "sola scriptura", besides that if we know doctrine well, we are supposed to teach it and make it clear to others , such patterns of tought are opposed to our doctrine and we thus try to correct it.

However I have not seen anyone here seriously treating you unkindly for writing out your thoughts, we merely try to teach you what we deem as correct doctrine, and we show you with passages from the bible so as to remove all doubt!

Going back to Jesus being the archangel Michael.

MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL ..... JESUS?

>>The Seventh-day Adventist church believes and teaches that the "everlasing life" referred to in 1 John 5: 13 commences with the new birth. It is a quality of life that begins in the present and eventually results in the gift of immortality.<< [ed.jasd]

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Note the tenses.

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of [this] tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 C0r 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2 Cor 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2 or 5:4 For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

“Ye shall never never die” – the emphatic, by Jesus Christ.

”Ye shall not never die” – the emphatic, by Jesus Christ.

>>Since humans do not now possess an immortal soul or spirit,<<

Heb 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,

>>...when they die the first death, they go into the grave and sleep unconsciously until the Second Coming. at which time they will be resurrected and made immortal.<<

1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

It is the mortal body, having returned to dust – when resurrected – puts on immortality. The soul/spirit...

Eccl 12:7 and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

and we know that Gd is not the Gd of the ‘dead’.

>>Give their definitions in all 12 occurances in the NT.<,

(h)orama is, as you note, used occurs twelve times in the NT – once as sight (Acts 7:31) and eleven times as vision

Acts 7:31 – sight
Matthew 17:9 and Acts 9:10, 12; 10:3, 17, 19; 11:5; 12:9; 16:9, 10; 18:9 – vision

Here is Louw & Nida, once more:

-horama:: an event in which something appears vividly and credibly to the mind, although not actually present, but implying that influence of some divine or supernatural power or agency – ‘vision.’

Refer: Acts 9:12; 2 Cor 12:1; Rev 9:17 —Louw & Nida[/quote]

You’ll notice I’ve included a couple of variants upon (horama).

>>They were taken to heaven on the basis of what Christ would accomplish in the future. Remember that the plan of salvation was so certain-- because God was determined to do it-- that it was as good as done before it had occurred within history.<<

I’d say it would be more interesting to posit that they had received their reward as a result of the cross and – had regressed in time – to the transfiguration event. Otherwise, there exists a problem with the concept of

firstfruits – Enoch, Elijah, and Moses – having interrupted the queue; y'know, each in their own order... :-o

>>There is nothing wrong with literal translations.<<

I agree; however, I think the issue turns upon “liberal translation”