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#182223 - 08/26/08 07:39 PM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: John317]
createsjg Offline
New Neighbor

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 2
Romans 6 tells us the purpose of baptism. Jesus was alive when He was baptized. I think that we do best to follow His example.
On the subject of Mormon's baptizing for the dead. I went on a tour of the temple built in Albuquerque NM before it's dedication and our guide showed us the baptismal and indicated that there was the practice of batizing for the dead. That was from their mouths.

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#182455 - 08/30/08 12:11 AM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: createsjg]
ChildofChrist Offline


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 5051
Loc: Mountain Top
Did they say HOW this is done?

Do they wash a document bearing the names or just sprinkle it?

It would be a rare thing to have access to ashes or bones.
_________________________
For God is love, and love is life.
~~Child of Christ~~

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#182741 - 08/31/08 11:06 PM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: John317]
B Humble Offline


Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 243
Baptism does not only mean to be immersed in scripture. For example, Christ asked the apostles (referring to his suffering and death) if they were able to be "baptized with HIS baptism". Mt.20:22-23 "22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: .."

It is clear in this verse that "baptism" meant to personally suffer. It is likely that 1Corinthians 15 had the same meaning as to "suffer" for the dead. After all, in scripture the concept of suffering for the dead is extant in the new testament.

Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;

Ephesians 2:5 - Even when we were DEAD in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Colossians 2:13 - And you, being DEAD in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

It really isn't foreign at all. Christ suffered and died for the sins of those who were dead, like the sins of Abraham, Noah, Issac, Jacob and the sins of all the prophets, all who were dead.

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#182744 - 08/31/08 11:17 PM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: B Humble]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10399
Loc: CA

Thanks very much for those thoughts. I hadn't thought of those things before, but I can see they're worth considering. I'll look at them carefully and then write a response. Thanks again.
_________________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre/ The falcon cannot hear the falconer;/ things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world... Surely some revelation is at hand;/Surely the Second Coming is at hand. W.B. Yeats


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#183184 - 09/03/08 07:19 AM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: John317]
B Humble Offline


Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 243
It is indeed one of the most profound yet simple truths I have ever come to know. It does explain how that the sacrifices of those on earth do benefit those are no longer living on earth. Otherwise, the sufferings and sacrifice of Christ would not have benefited those those who has passed from this life. And we, ourselves were dead in sins when Christ offered himself for his and saved or (quickened) while dead in sins. Who will ever deny that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for the dead?

profound! Isn't it?!

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#193610 - 10/17/08 01:52 PM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: B Humble]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10399
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: B Humble
It is indeed one of the most profound yet simple truths I have ever come to know. It does explain how that the sacrifices of those on earth do benefit those are no longer living on earth. Otherwise, the sufferings and sacrifice of Christ would not have benefited those those who has passed from this life. And we, ourselves were dead in sins when Christ offered himself for his and saved or (quickened) while dead in sins. Who will ever deny that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for the dead?

profound! Isn't it?!


Yet I am sure you will admit that after his death, a person cannot change his status from one of being lost to one of being saved. There is no probationary period following an individual death. Isn't that what the parable of the rich man and Lazarus teaches?

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#196431 - 10/28/08 05:52 AM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: John317]
B Humble Offline


Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 243
I would not say there is a probationary period after one's death. Nonetheless, the sacrifice of Christ was offered for the dead and they were aided by it. No one can deny it.

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#196443 - 10/28/08 08:56 AM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: B Humble]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10399
Loc: CA
Yes, Christ's sacrifice aided the dead, but on the basis of what the dead did while they were living, not while they were dead. In other words, the dead have no ability to accept Christ or to praise God or to have faith in Christ. All that is to be done on behalf of people must be done before they die. As pointed out before, that is the primary lesson of the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Take advantage of the time you have now, because once you die, it is too late. After death, there is no change in a person's spiritual condition. A person going into the grave unconverted and rebellious against God, will be raised in that same state of mind.

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#196446 - 10/28/08 09:31 AM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: B Humble]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10399
Loc: CA
Speaking of the dead, what is meant by 1 Cor. 15: 18?

It says that without the resurrection of the body, the dead are "perished," "lost." How could the dead be perished if they are conscious and alive in heaven or in the presence of the grace of God?

The CEV says it well: And those people who died after putting their faith in him are completely lost.

Could Paul have said this if he believed that the dead go immediately to be with the Lord?

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#196447 - 10/28/08 09:42 AM Re: Baptized for the dead? [Re: B Humble]
John317 Moderator Online   content


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 10399
Loc: CA

Could you give me between 10 and 20 verses that you would use in a Bible study on what happens when we die?

Feel free to add a comment with each verse to show what point is being made in the verse.

Later, if you like, I'll do the same.



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