What is the consensus around here on what this means?

1 Cor 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Thanks,

The consensus is that there is no consensus on what this obscure and difficult passage mean, and that one should not build a theological edifice on just one post supporting it.

Gerry

>>>The consensus is that there is no consensus on what this obscure and difficult passage mean, and that one should not build a theological edifice on just one post supporting it.

Thanks, Gerry.

However, ISTM that most Christian doctrines are built on prooftexts.

When several Bible writers say the same thing, then it is reasonable to use what they say as proof to establish a doctrine.

Gerry

The Bible says that the "dead know not anything neither have they any more reward." The dead are already saved or lost as the case may be.

That is true. Paul is not saying that Christians ought to baptize in behalf of the dead. He is simply observing that some people show that they believe in a future life by baptizing for the dead.

There are other legitmate ways of understanding this verse, however. For instance, it's entirely possible that Paul is talking about people who were baptized because they anticipated seeing their beloved dead in the future.

Baptism of the dead...is this not a practice of the Church of Latter Day Saints or more commonly known as the Mormons?

When Paul and the Corinthian believers studied the scriptures, they studied primarily the Old Testament (because the New Testament was still being written and wasn't widely available yet).

I suspect that Paul's meaning in this verse was probably clearer to folks who were well versed in the Old Testament.

Baptism was an Old Testament practice. It's related to the Hebrew word mikvah or ceremonial washing.

In the books of Moses, there are special washings prescribed for various occasions. Two of the most special washings were for people who had been in contact with the dead. They were to wash with water mixed with the ashes of a red heifer on the third day and on the seventh day before returning to worship at the Sanctuary. (Numbers 19:11ff)

What does this have to do with the resurrection of the dead that Paul was talking about? I don't know -- maybe nothing at all.

It is possible that the washing with red heifer ashes was referred to as "Mikvah-ing because of the dead", and when it got translated in to Greek it may have become "baptized for the dead". Of course, this is speculation, so don't quote me on this.

Perhaps when Paul was previously living in Corinth, one of their epic discussions had been about about the reasons for participating in a mikvah. Paul's comment may have been referring back to the arguments presented or the conclusions drawn from that discussion. Paul and his original readers in Corinth would have been familiar with what had been discussed before, but we haven't a clue.

Yes, it is one of their main doctrines. Virtually everyone who dies is baptized by proxy, because the Mormon's believe in the immortality of the soul, and because they believe that if no one is baptized for the dead, that dead person has no real chance of salvation. Mormon's also believe that the living once existed in heaven before being born with a body on this earth. Many of these ideas they get, not from the Bible but from the writings of Joseph Smith.

Thanks for those comments about baptism for the dead. I had never considered that aspect before as an explanation.